Not to pick on anyone, just using your quotes as a place to start the discussion:
IssacZachary wrote:...I do know that my own Leaf had a MSRP of over $40,000 and is now worth 1/10 that less than 5 years later....
Yes, depreciation has been bad, but "not quite" that bad. The original MSRP was $34-35K, plus almost all early adopters received the $7500 tax credit and some form of state incentive (e.g, $5000 in CA and no sales tax in WA). https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2011-nissan-leaf/review/
Yes, I personally spent full MSRP because there were NO other incentives out here in the sticks. CA had some dealers providing some additional incentives ($1000-$2000 off, IIRC). Today, in hindsight, it looks rather comical now, but back then many people had experienced the GM EV1 lease/crush fiasco. For me personally, the Leaf was about the same as buying a new $25K ICE, so "not" too bad. I could afford to pay cash for the vehicle since I'd been waiting and saving for a "real" (not DIY) BEV since the 1990s, I just didn't think I'd need to wait 20 years! When I factor in the $10,000 savings on gas/oil/maintenance, it becomes much more palatable. My electricity is 100% hydro and $0.06-$0.07/KWh, so essentially zero emission and cost. Sticking my finger to the oil industry: Priceless
Furthermore, if one purchased a BEV with degradation in mind (like I did because my commute is 8 mi, or about 10% or the original 73 mi EPA range of the Leaf), then the 10 yo BEV works just the same as the newly purchased BEV. I intend to drive my 2011 Leaf with the original battery until I can't make it to the grocery store (2 mi RT), or Nissan sells me a new battery for less than the value of the car (I'm pretty sure that's not happening). I'm making sure that Nissan gets absolutely NO VALUE from my used battery even if I have to drive it another 30 yrs! Last summer I sold the only ICE vehicle (1992) that I've ever purchase after 25 yrs of faithful service. I will never buy another ICE vehicle and the oil industry can waste all of their money pounding sand (hmmm, I guess that's what they're doing).
So, depreciation happens and it happens fast with fast-moving technology. Deal with it. As an example, how much should someone pay for the hottest new Apple MacBook Air from 2010? $1800? Nope, I found a refurbished one on Amazon for $300 (I'm not sure if it's even usable). Surprisingly, that's about the SAME depreciation (80-90%) as the 2010 Leaf (both were announced and released about the same time).
WetEV wrote:An active cooling system doesn't double the life of batteries everywhere. Might do more than triple the life in hot places. Would do nothing at best for cool places. I think Nissan should make better batteries, not an active cooling TMS. The "Lizard" 24kWh has been the best, and I'm really disappointed with the reports on the life of the 30kWh battery. But the 30kWh battery problem isn't a TMS problem, it is a battery problem. Fix the right problem.
While I mostly agree with this, I'm not sure if the 24 KWh "Lizard" battery is really that much better. It might just be a bigger battery (say 26-28 KWh) that is software limited to only use 21-22 KWh, thus allowing hidden degradation. For example, 20% degradation on 28 KWh works out to 22 KWh. Most folks took about 2 years to see 20% degradation on the 24 KWh battery (highly variable depending on location). Since, the 2016/2017 "30 KWh" battery is just about 2 yo, we should start to see similar degradation in non-Arizona environments. There are probably a whole host of other factors involved (yes, changes in chemistry, but also density, cycle depth, exterior conductance, insulation, etc. may also play a roll).
While I do believe that Nissan should focus on affordability, a TMS could greatly improve battery function in much of the world. Yes, the Puget Sound, the UK and a few other areas might not see "significant" improvement in battery function when using a TMS, but the rest of the world, and those marine areas during inclement weather, would see some improvements. A heat pump TMS system, combined with the cabin, could improve battery function and durability. I'd like to see such a system available as an option. Perhaps we could have the option to purchase without TMS for marine environments, with cold-weather TMS (resistive heating only) for northern/arctic environments, and hot-weather TMS (heat pump) for more southerly areas. I would certainly love to see batteries capable of handling 10 C charge/discharge rates without a TMS, last 20 yrs (to 80%), cost less than $100/KWh, and work the same from -50C to +50C. Unfortunately, we aren't there yet.