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garygid
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We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 5:07 pm

The fixed-installation 240v EVSE is NOT satisfactory. A PORTABLE, plug-in version is needed.

Without the plug-in feature, we are ignoring the millions of ALREADY-EXISTING 240v (30 and 50 amp) plugin sockets already available: the dryer socket in most homes, the sockets at RV parks, and the many available at most businesses.

NOT using this HUGE existing infrastructure is ... totally STUPID!

RIGHT NOW, we need to tell Nissan, local building departments, and legislators that we DENAND the right to plug-in. If we did not understand and accept that there are safety issues with fueling, we would not fuel our gas cars.

So, BEFORE you put money down or pay for a Leaf, demand a 240v plug-in EVSE that can work at AT LEAST the popular 15, 30, and 50-amp sockets.

If we ACT NOW, there is still time for new federal electrical-use laws to be introduced and passed. There is also time for Nissan to offer us a portable, plugin, amp-adjustable, 240v EVSE.

Email and chat with Nissan NOW, and tell every dealer that it will be a condition of sale.
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2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

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EVDRIVER
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 7:36 pm

They are trying to standardize. Just make an adaptor and be done with it. If they made a portable unit everyone would bitch about the many variations in plug types and it would get complicated. Going to a standard forces everyone to use one plug and they will end up dirt cheap soon enough. It's way better than avcon and the paddle chargers so be glad. We don't need another expensive portable unit. Garry, I thought your were an EE. Get a set of cutters and clip away or I will be glad to sell you a custom built one at a fraction of the cost they would charge you:)

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mwalsh
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 8:03 pm

garygid wrote:Without the plug-in feature, we are ignoring the millions of ALREADY-EXISTING 240v (30 and 50 amp) plugin sockets already available: the dryer socket in most homes, the sockets at RV parks, and the many available at most businesses.

NOT using this HUGE existing infrastructure is ... totally STUPID!




I've got to say that I do agree. I'm from the UK and we've been using 220v for donkey's years, and we don't get killed or anything (though I can't recall how many amps standard sockets are).
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 70,000 miles.
2015 pack under warranty 12/30/15.
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Michelin MXV4 tires.
L1 EVSE upgrade.
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evnow
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 8:35 pm

Does anyone kn exctlywhich "code" makes harwiing mandatory ? Is ther such thing as a federal code at all -is it just some states ?
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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sjfotos
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 9:12 pm

There is no US national code. However, the code NEC or NFPA (National Electric Code and National Fire Protection Association) 70 is a de facto national code, as it has been adopted by all 50 states. Building codes used to be more local, and may still be in some states, but even in PA, the national codes were adopted by the state, with enforcement left to local jurisdictions. I only know this because much of the PA local code was replaced a few years ago with these national codes, much to the consternation of the Amish, Mennonite and associated rural DIY types who really disliked being told the minimum size of windows in occupied rooms, etc.
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garygid
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 9:40 pm

The NEC article 625 relates to EV type applications. There are at least 1999, 2001, 2005, 2007, and 2011 versions, but states are slow to adopt new versions. CA might have adopted the 2007 version. The 2011 version of article 625 apparently just adds Plug-in Hybrids to its "applicable" list.

According to my reading one earlier (before 2001) version of article 625, I think (others might have other opinions):

1. For 110/120v applications, 15 or even 20 amps, plug-in operation is basically OK and there are very few restrictions.

2. For 220/240v, it appears to me that under about 40 amps, with sufficient interlocks & disconnects included (625-18 & 625-19), AND for indoor (not outdoor) use (625-29), that hard-wiring is not required. I could be wrong. Also, not "listed" (most home-brew) equipment is mostly prohibited, I think.

So, there is a chance that the NEC does (did) allow suitably-constructed EVSEs to be used in a plug-in mode.

Google: NEC article 625
Tell me what you think, please.
Last edited by garygid on Sat May 01, 2010 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

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sjfotos
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 9:41 pm

I forgot to add, that the NEC, where adopted, frequently gets some 'upgrades'.....kind of a minimum -
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AndyH
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 9:50 pm

evnow wrote:Does anyone kn exctlywhich "code" makes hardwiring mandatory ? Is there such thing as a federal code at all -is it just some states ?


This is all I've found so far. I think the latest National Electric Code is 2008 - this is from 1999. Article applies to EVSE - I have no idea if there are other articles that apply as well.

I bought a copy of SAE J1772 Jan 2010 and am working thru it. There are a pair of diagrams that detail AC Level 1 and Level 2 charging. Level 1 is identified as a "method of EV/PHEV charging that extends AC power from the most common grounded electrical receptacle to an on-board charger using an appropriate cord set...AC level 1 allows connection to existing electrical receptacles in compliance with the National Electrical Code - Article 625." The diagram clearly indicates use of a NEMA 5-15 or 5-20 plug.

For Level 2 the description reads: "the primary method of EV/PHEV charging that extends AC power from the electric supply to an on-board charger from a dedicated EVSE as shown in Figure 4. The electrical ratings are similar to large household appliances and specified in Table 1. AC Level 2 may be utilized at home, workplace, and public charging facilities." The diagram clearly indicates a hard-wired connection to the grid.

J1772 has a number of other references to SAE, FCC, International Electrotechnical Commission, ISO, NFPA, and UL pubs.

Here's a link - confirms Gary's comment about the 2011 NEC being 'on the streets'.

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garygid
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 10:26 pm

If my "reading" of NEC article 625 is correct, the hard-wired diagram in the J1772 spec would be just an example of one (the most typical?) installation, but not the only one. The hard-wired seems required for "outdoor" uses.

The hard-wired seems to be OK in all legal configurations. The plug-in configuration is allowed for 120v 15a configurations, and in some "other" situations.

Not specified: The EVSE and connection to grid power are indoors, and the vehicle is outdoors.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

mitch672
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Re: We need a portable 240v EVSE

Sat May 01, 2010 11:26 pm

Because the J-1772 spec can supply up to 70Amps, that is the most likely reason the hardwiring is required. A portable level 2 charging cord/evse could be designed and built to run off a 30A dryer outlet, but someone would need to do it and get it UL approved. Probably no one wants to spend the money on it, as most see the 120v level 1 cord sufficient for portable use.
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