Some talk of a NIssan Electric SUV

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From the article, it sounds like it will be about $45k and very competitve in terms of quality vs. a Lexus RX, which runs $43k-$50k. Less the $10k tax credit and California rebate, and you get a Lexus RX competitor for $35k, but it is an EV which is a huge plus in many regards except long distance road trips.

For how most people typically use the CUV and SUV, i.e., as a city commuter, this should sell well. However, for those wanting the CUV or SUV for the large cargo capacity for their luggage/camping gear, etc. for their long vacation road trips; maybe not so well.

But I've seen a lot of postings here suggesting that people really want CUV and SUV - e.g., why Ford is dropping cars to focus on that segment. So getting an EV one out there can be a huge step forward. That could help Nissan re-establish itself as an EV leader - though they have likely permanently ceded the top spot to Tesla. As the article noted, having only 1 model in play doesn't really look like a leader. But if they have 2 models that each clear 10k units a year in the US, that should keep them in the top 5 for a few more years.
 
DarthPuppy said:
But I've seen a lot of postings here suggesting that people really want CUV and SUV - e.g., why Ford is dropping cars to focus on that segment.
It's not just "suggesting", it's what's going on in the US auto market.

See http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html (unfortunately, updates stopped due to GM no longer providing monthly sales numbers).

Look a Rogue sales vs. their cars: http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/channels/us-united-states-nissan/releases/nissan-group-reports-sept-2018-u-s-sales.

Sort by month column or YTD: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/september-2018-the-best-selling-vehicles-in-america-every-vehicle-ranked/.

It used to always be the Ford F-series truck being the best selling auto and the Silverado would be up there. The best selling cars usually tended to the Accord and Camry (Camcord). Altima would sometimes make it up there. There would usually be no import brand vehicles above Camcord, but now the Rogue and Rav4's up there.

Here are some previous years for the WSJ report:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180105232806/http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170107043945/http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109013305/http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html
 
As I've written before, though, I think that CUVs should not be lumped in with SUVs as big gas guzzlers, because they are essentially station wagons disguised as SUVs. How do things look when CUVs and cars are added together, instead of the former being subtracted from the latter? I think that what most EV buyers really want is, first, AWD, and second, lots of useful cargo space rather than a high, heavy vehicle.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I think that what most EV buyers really want is, first, AWD, and second, lots of useful cargo space rather than a high, heavy vehicle.

Actually aside from certain areas with lots of snowfall, AWD is NOT the primary reason for US buyers wanting an SUV. In fact there's at least one new model (Nissan Kicks) in which AWD is NOT even an option. And as traction control and tire technology improve, the number of people who want (much less need) AWD will diminish.

Subarus sell well, but because Subaru doesn't offer a 2WD vehicle in the US other than the BR-Z, we really don't know how many of those buyers really want AWD.

As far as useful cargo space, most CUV's aren't all that much better than a hatchback of similar outside dimensions. That's because many of them share the same platforms as cars. And they don't compare to minivans.

The factors that lead to high SUV/CUV sales in the US IMHO is due to:

1. Easier ingress/egress due to the greater ride height. Some SUV's/CUV's offer a bit more headroom since it's easier to conceal the inherent tall look in SUV styling without looking ridiculously top heavy (think Mitsubishi Mirage).
2. The appearance of an "outdoorsy" lifestyle which is trendy at the moment.
 
RonDawg said:
LeftieBiker said:
I think that what most EV buyers really want is, first, AWD, and second, lots of useful cargo space rather than a high, heavy vehicle.

Actually aside from certain areas with lots of snowfall, AWD is NOT the primary reason for US buyers wanting an SUV. In fact there's at least one new model (Nissan Kicks) in which AWD is NOT even an option. And as traction control and tire technology improve, the number of people who want (much less need) AWD will diminish. (...)

I wasn't clear enough, and you misinterpreted what I wrote. I mean that "Most people who are actually going to buy an EV, and who want an electric SUV or CUV, want available AWD and more cargo room more than they want a much larger vehicle with a lot of ground clearance." Electric vehicles with AWD and more cargo space should, at least at first, be targeted towards people who are actually willing to buy or lease an EV. That is what Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are doing, and what Mitsubishi is doing in the PHEV market. As for AWD being unnecessary, when you exclude people in "certain areas with lots of snowfall" you exclude a LOT of people. Virginia would do fine with advanced traction control, unless their Winters worsen. Pennsylvania and those states North of them, not so much.
 
LeftieBiker said:
RonDawg said:
LeftieBiker said:
I think that what most EV buyers really want is, first, AWD, and second, lots of useful cargo space rather than a high, heavy vehicle.

Actually aside from certain areas with lots of snowfall, AWD is NOT the primary reason for US buyers wanting an SUV. In fact there's at least one new model (Nissan Kicks) in which AWD is NOT even an option. And as traction control and tire technology improve, the number of people who want (much less need) AWD will diminish. (...)

I wasn't clear enough, and you misinterpreted what I wrote. I mean that "Most people who are actually going to buy an EV, and who want an electric SUV or CUV, want available AWD and more cargo room more than they want a much larger vehicle with a lot of ground clearance." Electric vehicles with AWD and more cargo space should, at least at first, be targeted towards people who are actually willing to buy or lease an EV. That is what Tesla and Hyundai/Kia are doing, and what Mitsubishi is doing in the PHEV market. As for AWD being unnecessary, when you exclude people in "certain areas with lots of snowfall" you exclude a LOT of people. Virginia would do fine with advanced traction control, unless their Winters worsen. Pennsylvania and those states North of them, not so much.

While Tesla does have an AWD SUV, and the new Audi e-Tron will as well, the Hyundai Kona EV is not available with AWD unlike the ICE version. Just like with the ICE version, AWD adds weight, and weight cuts into range. That's OK if you have a gigantic battery (Model X) or a backup engine (Outlander), but not in a moderately priced EV when you're trying to keep up with the Bolt.

As far as excluding a lot of people, folks in northern Europe and Russia get by just fine on 2WD, some of them even RWD like older Volvos, most BMW's and Mercedes, and for the eastern part of Europe the Lada. Heck, you're driving a Leaf in upstate New York.
 
I would love to get an electric SUV for going snowboarding in the mountains. But, that is 80-115 miles one way in the cold when batteries don't do generally do that well. I already know that Tesla has a supercharger station up there so with a Tesla I wouldn't have to worry about getting back. With a 300 mile range I probably wouldn't worry about it. With a 220 mile range I would be a little nervous.
 
RonDawg said:
As far as excluding a lot of people, folks in northern Europe and Russia get by just fine on 2WD, some of them even RWD like older Volvos, most BMW's and Mercedes, and for the eastern part of Europe the Lada. Heck, you're driving a Leaf in upstate New York.

What people need and what they want (and therefore buy) are two very different things. I have done perfectly fine with FWD cars and snow tires (forget all-seasons in the snow, they are mediocre at best) in upstate NY. But lots of people want AWD. They think that they are better off, although experience tells me the opposite is actually true. Those with AWD tend not to buy snow tires and therefore end up with four wheels spinning that cannot grip the road. It never fails - at the first sign of snow, it is always the AWD SUVs upside-down in the ditch while the FWD passenger cars put on their snow tires, slow down, and get where they are going safely.
 
Electric SUV is ridiculous.... Its like saying we need Vegan Sumo Wrestlers.... Yeah right we really need EVs to go off-roading and go on ski trips... That sounds like a 20 year old talking..

What the US NEEDS, and the car have never addressed is... The EV minivan... you can easily hide tons of batteries in the floor panels, and the minivan is what makes American families move daily. They are driven by women (yes, women... ) who stay close to home for many local trips daily. That would be a winner..
 
powersurge said:
Electric SUV is ridiculous.... Its like saying we need Vegan Sumo Wrestlers.... Yeah right we really need EVs to go off-roading and go on ski trips... That sounds like a 20 year old talking..

What the US NEEDS, and the car have never addressed is... The EV minivan... you can easily hide tons of batteries in the floor panels, and the minivan is what makes American families move daily. They are driven by women (yes, women... ) who stay close to home for many local trips daily. That would be a winner..

We need EVs that people will buy. And people buy SUVs / CUVs in droves. Minivans are still around, but are rather unpopular. Even at my kids' school during a parents events. Today's soccer mom drives an SUV, not a minivan.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
powersurge said:
What the US NEEDS, and the car have never addressed is... The EV minivan... you can easily hide tons of batteries in the floor panels, and the minivan is what makes American families move daily. They are driven by women (yes, women... ) who stay close to home for many local trips daily. That would be a winner..

We need EVs that people will buy. And people buy SUVs / CUVs in droves. Minivans are still around, but are rather unpopular. Even at my kids' school during a parents events. Today's soccer mom drives an SUV, not a minivan.
Powersurge is right about the unaddressed market in the US. Unfortunately, minivans in the US have been a dying segment for over a decade.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/08/americas-minivan-market-still-hasnt-reached-the-bottom-of-the-barrel-but-its-nearly-there/ has an example of a sales graph. It is bizarre that the minivan in the US has such an "uncool" reputation/image with people REFUSING to buy them yet SUVs are somehow "cool" or cooler w/US vehicle buyers flocking to them. Long ago, minivans in the US were a hot segment.

A bunch of companies have pulled out of the segment in the US or pretty much given up in the US consumer versions of them.
 
My point is just that the most useful EV in the world helps no one if it doesn't sell. If people are buying SUVs and CUVs (and they are), we should have electric versions of them.
 
Yes, I know that people are buying SUVs. I really think that this is because they like the coolness factor and the idea of 4wd... Those people use the car to just carry a few people, and no significant cargo. They have a similar interior room to a large sedan.

However, True larger families (couples with 2 or more children) will go with a minivan for its comfort and ability to easily carry 6-7 people, plus gear. Over the years I have owned a Grand Voyager and Honda Odyssey, and will always have these minivans. If you measure, an Odyssey has the same interior room as a monster Yukon or Suburban...

That is why I think that an EV people/ gear mover minivan would kill in sales...
 
I think we are taking past each other. I don’t debate the usefulness of a minivan. I just disagree with the conclusion that its utility will make it a big seller. ICE minivans are much more useful than their SUV counterparts yet they don’t sell nearly as well. In your opinion, why would this be different for an EV?
 
As far as why SUV's are selling so well right now, I came across this article: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/mark-phelan/2018/10/06/suv-sales-safety-buyers/1531565002/

In short, it says ease of ingress/egress is a huge reason why they're selling so well. Another reason is that the relatively higher seat height from the floor on an SUV vs. a sedan makes for a more comfortable experience once inside. 4WD isn't mentioned at all according to that article.

Minivans have these same attributes, but as mentioned earlier they have become "uncool."
 
LeftieBiker said:
Both of those attributes are found in the Leaf, so I doubt that the higher ride height is driving the demand for an electric SUV or CUV.

The Leaf also looks dorkier than just about any SUV or minivan. For the 2nd gen model, Nissan should have updated the styling to look more CUV-like. The tall greenhouse would look better on top of a taller suspension and perhaps some "butch" looking body cladding.
 
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