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Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:50 am
by SageBrush
alozzy wrote:Another factor, which should mean less degradation with the 62 kWh pack, is the typical depth of discharge (DoD).

For most people, the extra capacity will mean that they will very seldom discharge the pack by more than 20% - 25% between charging cycles. That translates to many more charging cycles over the life of the battery pack as compared to a 24 kWh pack where the DoD is much higher.

See this article, and table 2 in particular, for the correlation between DoD and the number of cycles over the life of the pack:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries

This data is for temperature controlled cycling, so it applies to a larger pack with TMS.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:33 am
by powersurge
alozzy wrote:Another factor, which should mean less degradation with the 62 kWh pack, is the typical depth of discharge (DoD).

For most people, the extra capacity will mean that they will very seldom discharge the pack by more than 20% - 25% between charging cycles. That translates to many more charging cycles over the life of the battery pack as compared to a 24 kWh pack where the DoD is much higher.

See this article, and table 2 in particular, for the correlation between DoD and the number of cycles over the life of the pack:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/art ... _batteries


I agree. With a larger battery, the DEGREE of discharge range will be less than the making of "full charge/ discharge cycles" of a smaller battery. The smaller pack is worn out faster than the large. The larger battery will in essence be "at rest" most of the time and the charging cycles will not have perceptible effects on the chemistry health of the battery..

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:33 pm
by WetEV
SageBrush wrote:This data is for temperature controlled cycling, so it applies to a larger pack with TMS.


TMS doesn't mean the same thing as temperature controlled cycling.

Put a battery in a thermal chamber set to 25C...and the case of the battery might be at 25C +- 1C. But real cars do not and can not keep the temperature at a constant 25C. For example, Telsa Model S BMS seems to start cooling to limit temperature at 45C.

https://www.teslarati.com/watch-tesla-b ... rcharging/

My LEAF's battery, even on a summer trip with multiple QCs, has not gotten close to 45C. At best a TMS would only add weight, reduce reliability... about the only good thing about a TMS would be that power draw would be minimal locally. Because it would never turn on.

Yes, I know it is different in Arizona.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:01 pm
by SageBrush
WetEV wrote:Yes, I know it is different in Arizona.

And just about everywhere else outside the PNW in the USA. It's the 'everywhere else' part you are still struggling with.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:42 am
by eplus
palmermd wrote:the plus cars [are] a nice improvement, but depending on the price may not do much. The way I see it, it is the car that we expected Nissan to make at this point and for about the price they are selling the non plus for. They really cant put a big price differential between them or they just wont sell. So either very little price difference and all sales go to the plus or they lower the price of the non plus cars. That might be a big win for Nissan.

This is essentially the way I see it. Having just bought a 2018, I hope they don’t lower the price that much for the non-plussed ;)

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:56 am
by joeriv
I would not be surprised to see the 40 KWhr Leaf discontinued - IMHO offering 3 versions of the 40 and 62 KWhr Leafs with overlapping pricing makes no sense. At a minimum I would expect the 40 KWhr SV and SL to be discontinued - maybe we will see a fire sale on the 40s?

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:32 pm
by eplus
joeriv wrote:I would not be surprised to see the 40 KWhr Leaf discontinued - IMHO offering 3 versions of the 40 and 62 KWhr Leafs with overlapping pricing makes no sense. At a minimum I would expect the 40 KWhr SV and SL to be discontinued - maybe we will see a fire sale on the 40s?

On the Japanese website, they don’t have the S available in 62 kWh. That’s the only difference I could tell, for that region anyway.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:34 pm
by OrientExpress

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:44 am
by DaveinOlyWA
joeriv wrote:I would not be surprised to see the 40 KWhr Leaf discontinued - IMHO offering 3 versions of the 40 and 62 KWhr Leafs with overlapping pricing makes no sense. At a minimum I would expect the 40 KWhr SV and SL to be discontinued - maybe we will see a fire sale on the 40s?


well anything is possible but the press release along with several other statements from Nissan all but guarantee that 40 kwh will still be offered as is.

Re: LEAF+ press release

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 am
by jdcbomb
It's my understanding that even though it may cost Nissan more to be able to manufacture both 40 / 62 kWh variants, it's offset by the fact that they could sell more volume overall having both options. The 40 kWh "value" option is sufficient for the majority of less than 50 mile commuters, while the 62 kWh can cover everyone else who needs the range. It seems the EV manufacturers out there would be wise (and most are like Hyundai, etc_ to offer different range options to capture as many customers.