DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13774
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon May 13, 2019 6:40 am

lorenfb wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Which brings me to the question; Several have reported only "early" 2018's have the RapidGate SW and that was updated for latter LEAFs from the factory. If so, when did this happen? I was under impression that none of the NA LEAFs had the updated version?


How would you suggest determining whether the BMS firmware was updated for "RapidGate" in the 40 kWh Leafs for 2019 deliveries?

First QC on 2019 40 kWh (via LeafSpy):

Data - ambient - 70F, initial SOC 24%, initial bat. temp - 75F, final temp 100F, final SOC 70%, charge time 30 min
Results - added capacity - 46% (18.4 kWh), average charge power - 36.8 kW (average charge current ~ 100A)


For those who got the update, their firmware version changed from "A" to "C"

As far as determining if you are suffering from RapidGate which starts when you have 7 temperature bars (one tick past the middle) simply look at the charging screen on start of the charge. Assuming your SOC is low (below 50%) you should see max current. Depending on station speed if 50 kw station max current is about 125 amps, you will see charging speed from 42-43 KW.

Using 30 min as a guide is not a good idea because it HIGHLY dependant on your starting SOC
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 2116
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon May 13, 2019 7:34 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
For those who got the update, their firmware version changed from "A" to "C"


How did you access the firmware version?

DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as determining if you are suffering from RapidGate which starts when you have 7 temperature bars (one tick past the middle) simply look at the charging screen on start of the charge.


What are the actual temp readings, not just the Mickey Mouse temp bars? As I mentioned before, my 2013 battery temp never went
above 95F after a QC. The first 30 minute QC with the 2019 resulted in 100F. Given that, can imagine what multiple QCs on a hot day
would do to the 2019 battery temp (not good). Nissan may allow moderately high battery temps while QCing to pacify owners
even to the detriment of battery longevity, but without having warranty claims. Have any actual 2018 battery temps been noted
after multiple QCs based on ambients?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

lorenfb
Posts: 2116
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon May 13, 2019 1:12 pm

Turbo3 had indicated that Pro would have the ability to calculate battery resistance similar to TM-Spy & LeafDD. Can't find it either
noted in the manual nor the app itself. I would like to determine the battery resistance of the 2019 40kWh, and compare to my 2013.
Have I missed it during my search?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13774
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Tue May 14, 2019 6:20 am

lorenfb wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
For those who got the update, their firmware version changed from "A" to "C"


How did you access the firmware version?

DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as determining if you are suffering from RapidGate which starts when you have 7 temperature bars (one tick past the middle) simply look at the charging screen on start of the charge.


What are the actual temp readings, not just the Mickey Mouse temp bars? As I mentioned before, my 2013 battery temp never went
above 95F after a QC. The first 30 minute QC with the 2019 resulted in 100F. Given that, can imagine what multiple QCs on a hot day
would do to the 2019 battery temp (not good). Nissan may allow moderately high battery temps while QCing to pacify owners
even to the detriment of battery longevity, but without having warranty claims. Have any actual 2018 battery temps been noted
after multiple QCs based on ambients?


24 kwh charging profile was rather pathetic with knee in the 40's % SOC which is the reason they didn't heat up much.

Using the highest reading only in Fº;

6 bars (half way) 78.3 - 95.8

The low end has no throttling, the upper end is where it starts. It would appear the optimum charge temp would be the middle. Realize colder temps still see max charge rate but an earlier knee (the point when max current starts to drop)

You can see versions in LEAF Spy Pro.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 2116
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Tue May 14, 2019 9:32 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:You can see versions in LEAF Spy Pro.


Have that version;
What's new in version 0.45.119

No mention of determining battery resistance.

Remember, you did a test to determine the battery resistance of your 40 kWh last year, and the value wasn't much different
than my 24 kWh 2013. It should have been about 60% (24/40) of the 2013. That indicates that with increasing capacity,
more cells in parallel, the chemistry is such that the battery resistance is basically remaining the same. The test really
needs to be done using an app and not just monitoring the QC data at the initial charge beginning. With the larger Leaf
batteries and more lengthy QC times, battery resistance (heat) becoming more critical.

We'll have to wait for Turbo3 to respond.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13774
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Wed May 15, 2019 6:29 am

lorenfb wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:You can see versions in LEAF Spy Pro.


Have that version;
What's new in version 0.45.119

No mention of determining battery resistance.

Remember, you did a test to determine the battery resistance of your 40 kWh last year, and the value wasn't much different
than my 24 kWh 2013. It should have been about 60% (24/40) of the 2013. That indicates that with increasing capacity,
more cells in parallel, the chemistry is such that the battery resistance is basically remaining the same. The test really
needs to be done using an app and not just monitoring the QC data at the initial charge beginning. With the larger Leaf
batteries and more lengthy QC times, battery resistance (heat) becoming more critical.

We'll have to wait for Turbo3 to respond.


more cells in parallel?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 2116
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Wed May 15, 2019 9:07 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:You can see versions in LEAF Spy Pro.


Have that version;
What's new in version 0.45.119

No mention of determining battery resistance.

Remember, you did a test to determine the battery resistance of your 40 kWh last year, and the value wasn't much different
than my 24 kWh 2013. It should have been about 60% (24/40) of the 2013. That indicates that with increasing capacity,
more cells in parallel, the chemistry is such that the battery resistance is basically remaining the same. The test really
needs to be done using an app and not just monitoring the QC data at the initial charge beginning. With the larger Leaf
batteries and more lengthy QC times, battery resistance (heat) becomes more critical.

We'll have to wait for Turbo3 to respond.


more cells in parallel?


You either add more cells (Nissan pouches) in parallel or increase the Ahr rating of each cell (Nissan pouch) to increase the kWh battery rating.
Presently, all BEV batteries are about 360 volts, so that's a constant.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F (35C), min discharge (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 25%, temp < 105F

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