analyser
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:49 am
Delivery Date: 17 Apr 2016
Leaf Number: 021825

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:01 pm

Turbo3 wrote:...... knowing the battery serial number might tell you something about when/how the battery was manufactured if enough people report their data. Parts of the serial number might change based on chemistry or other interesting factors.

I would guess the "Battery Programming Card" generates a special code number required to marry the VCM and BMS ECU using the battery's serial number. A CAN trace of the process would tell us more about what is going on. I would thing the PCMCIA card includes an encryption chip so it is not going to be easy to bypass it. I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.


Good point about the manufacture date. However if the serial is not on the every module (like on every module in Prius) you would not have a clue if someone had aready mixed old and new.... I created small program for scanning and checking quickly the dates in Toyota. Will have a loook at the Nissan serial structure - whether it follows the pattern .... As for the "card" - if I get one - we can experiment ....

taavi
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2017

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:50 am

Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:53 am

Turbo3 wrote:... I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.

When my pack was replaced under capacity warranty I talked with the service advisor about this.

The card is a programming tool for the Consult III.
Nissan will not sell it to anyone.
They will only provide it to dealers for use in doing capacity warranty replacements or installation of a new pack that the customer has purchased.
I'm still a bit unclear on whether it is specific to the new pack. My guess is that it is and the dealer must return it to Nissan after the pack is installed.

Nissan does have specific requirements that the old pack must be returned to them in a specific time frame.

If someone wants to monitor CAN while they are doing the software install they will have to get a dealer willing to work with them to do this.
My guess is it would be a gross violation of their contractal agreements with Nissan and they will not do it.

Most dealers won't even let you in the service bay due to insurance and safety liabilities.

The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

Turbo3
Gold Member
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 002191
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:59 pm

taavi wrote:Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.

SOC changes during normal charging when the battery pack is in a Leaf. When I have a BMS on my bench the CAN is only active if I have +12 and IGN pins powered. Without the IGN getting 12 volts the CAN is not active for me. This is without a battery pack just the BMS powered on the bench.

In normal use LeafSpy gets data from an OBDII adapter plugged into the CAR CAN so no LeafSpy does not read the EV CAN as it is not normally connected to it. Only in the special case where the OBDII CAR CAN pins are wired to the EV CAN could LeafSpy get data from the EV CAN. Only when you are working with a standalone battery pack does this happen.

Turbo3
Gold Member
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:34 pm
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 002191
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:06 pm

TimLee wrote:
Turbo3 wrote:... I don't recall seeing that card for sale so probably only dealers can get it.

When my pack was replaced under capacity warranty I talked with the service advisor about this.

The card is a programming tool for the Consult III.
Nissan will not sell it to anyone.
They will only provide it to dealers for use in doing capacity warranty replacements or installation of a new pack that the customer has purchased.
I'm still a bit unclear on whether it is specific to the new pack. My guess is that it is and the dealer must return it to Nissan after the pack is installed.

Nissan does have specific requirements that the old pack must be returned to them in a specific time frame.

If someone wants to monitor CAN while they are doing the software install they will have to get a dealer willing to work with them to do this.
My guess is it would be a gross violation of their contractal agreements with Nissan and they will not do it.

Most dealers won't even let you in the service bay due to insurance and safety liabilities.

The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:

The programming card is a PCMCIA card and plugs into the laptop running the Consult 3+ software (so you need an old laptop that still has the PCMCIA slot). I assume it generates the encryption key necessary to "marry" the "new" BMS (battery pack) to the VCM in the Leaf.

Without that PCMCIA card and the Consult 3+ software you can not replace a battery pack.

However, if the battery pack is the same generation as the replacement pack you could open up the two packs and swap the BMS board. Not an easy task but it should work.

Valdemar
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:43 am

TimLee wrote:The programming card does raise some interesting questions.
Say my LEAF with new pack gets in wreck and insurance totals it but pack is undamaged.
The smart thing to do would be to buy 2011 with badly degraded pack and swap in the new pack.
But the only way to do that will be to get Nissan to provide you a card.
Don't know if they will cooperate and do that or not :?:


I was in this exact situation, well almost, my 2011 Leaf with a new battery wasn't technically totally wrecked but my insurance totaled it anyway. At the time I was weighing different options, and approached my dealer with a question if they can swap the packs between 2 2011 Leafs, they assured me it was nothing special and they can easily do it for $1200. I didn't pursue this route after all and just kept my car so don't have a hard proof it is actually doable apart from the dealer's statement. The service advisor spoke with their Leaf technician and the service manager before telling me this, so I tend to believe this was more or less credible information, at the time anyway.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

KevinSharpe
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:10 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2011
Location: Frome, UK

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:50 am

taavi wrote:I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.
does this help?

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... p?t=175674
Investor/Tinkerer in Biomethane, Electric Transport, Hydrogen, Hydropower, Solar, Wind & Wave.

http://about.me/kevinsharpe

taavi
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:52 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2017

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:48 am

Turbo3 wrote:
taavi wrote:Hello!
I got an used Leaf Battery and experimenting with CAN, reading the parameters from BMS via EV-CAN. As I don't have Leaf at the moment, I try to learn the battery BMS capabilities to use it otherwise. First connected using ELM327 with LeafSpy Lite and also with Peaktech PCAN expresscard. I get the data and answers to the queries, balancing works (red colored bars in LeafSpy Lite) if either IGN pins has 12V on it, but also have problems and questions.
First seems that LeafSpy doesn't read the value of current from messages on EV-CAN as the app shows 0 while charging or consuming, but there seems to be value of current, so figuring out at the moment how to get the readable number ( from message with id 1DB I guess).

But the most important problem for me at the moment is, that the value of SOC (From first message: Group 1 has 6 lines of data (precision SOC, Ah Capacity and perhaps battery State of Health %) doesn't change, while I charge the battery via power supply or consume the energy (big resistors). I see the battery that the voltages of cells rise and fall but SOC doesn't change. I can get new SOC value only when disconnecting and reconnecting 12V BAT pin at Leaf Battery communication socket which somehow forces the BMS to calculate or show the new value. As you have more experience here, I wanted to ask, if there is any CAN message to say BMS to recalculate the SOC value?

I was and will continue digging in the forum, but maybe someone can give me some hints to find the right information faster.

SOC changes during normal charging when the battery pack is in a Leaf. When I have a BMS on my bench the CAN is only active if I have +12 and IGN pins powered. Without the IGN getting 12 volts the CAN is not active for me. This is without a battery pack just the BMS powered on the bench.

In normal use LeafSpy gets data from an OBDII adapter plugged into the CAR CAN so no LeafSpy does not read the EV CAN as it is not normally connected to it. Only in the special case where the OBDII CAR CAN pins are wired to the EV CAN could LeafSpy get data from the EV CAN. Only when you are working with a standalone battery pack does this happen.

Made an Arduino setup to monitor EV-CAN.
What I got is volts and amps of pack from id 0x1db.
A little issue is with measuring amps as the value is recalibrated to zero with the sensor value at this moment, while re-powering the BAT line to the BMS (to make the BMS to recalculate SOC value). So curring the 12V from BMS while charging or discharging will ruin the measurement of the (dis)charging current.
Second I got SOC value from 0x55b.
Also not changing, until the BAT is cut and reconnected.
Then GIDS value from 0x5bc.
Same problem as with SOC.
Seems that in car the VCM module which communicates with BMS somehow sends a recalculation command or activation command to the BMS module on startup of the system. As I don't have a car I can't make a log and then analyse to find it, even not sure I am able to find something. Anyone has some EV-CAN log?
I also found out that the power sockets on battery container have additional small holes. To get feedback about cables connected or not?
So still stuck to get SOC or GIDS value to recalculated...

At a link posted by KevinSharpe it seems the values are read on startup, but no contonuous measurement of SOC.

framuga
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 5:31 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2016

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:24 am

Hello everyone. Great job the one compiled here.
I have BMS leaf connected in working table. I've connected diodes in series to simulate a real battery. I have been able to establish connection with the BMS with leafspy and monitor the voltage state of each zener diode. The bms does not start equalization. I am thinking that there should be some message that activates the equalization, maybe put in evcan from VCM. Someone can post a moment log before the start of equalization.
I have also read that the equalization is continuous in another post.
Thank you

hubaksis
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:27 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jan 2018

Re: Active EV-CAN sampling: cell voltages, pack temperatures...

Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:22 pm

Hi everyone,
I think this is the best topic to ask.
I found out that some values can be requested from a module only after setting it into diagnostic mode by sending a command 02 10 C0.

However, I can't find any details about this mode.
Can you tell me, does it have any expiration time? If so - is there a command to keep it active or just send another one 02 10 C0?
Do I need to exit diagnostic mode after I finished all requests?

Thanks.

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