TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:23 pm

powersurge wrote:I am sorry if I don't sound sympathetic but, who gives a hoot about having seriously accurate data on battery remaining... It sounds really excessive and obsessive. ...

You do not have enough experience with 21 months experience and with a 2015 LEAF that being in Long Island, NY has very modest capacity degradation to yet understand the need and usefulness of knowing the Remaining kWh that are available.

At this point you have 19 to 19.5 or possibly 20 kWh when your LEAF is carged to 100%.
When it hits LBW with only two status of charge bars remaining it is probably at 3.5 kWh remaining.
Depending on your driving range needs you csn probably get by not knowing how far you can go at LBW and below.

My first two years I didn't have any devices and did OK without them.
But even then knowing remaining kWh would have been extremely useful when I was four miles from DCQC and all I had was flashing bars, or the time I stopped and did DCQC 7 miles from home but probably could have made it home had I known Remaining kWh.

Once you lose 30% capacity knowing Remaining kWh becomes essential because Remaining kWh below LBW becomes a bigger and bigger % of your maximum range.

I'm sorry but you just do not undrrstand what you are talking about and I hope I have been informative.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

jlsoaz
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:22 pm

powersurge wrote:I am sorry if I don't sound sympathetic but, who gives a hoot about having seriously accurate data on battery remaining... It sounds really excessive and obsessive. Actually a person that needs to know exactly how much juice is left has "range anxiety" before they press the ON button of the car... How many people with a gas car need to constantly know how many more miles the have on their gas tank... When the needle gets low, you fill it up...


Hi - I can make both sides of this argument - I do think in my own 39 month lease that, generally speaking, I did not have a strong need for the LeafDD or similar to know exactly how much I had left in the tank. I really liked the extra knowledge it gave me (and sometimes had to avoid looking too much, best to keep one's eyes on the road) but it was not the be-all end-all essential item to me.

I want to point out though that the LeafDD served at least one other important role, and to me this was crucial. Back in 2012-2013 when it was becoming apparent that there were issues with degradation, and around when Nissan held its Town Hall in Phoenix too meet with owners and communicate, I think Plug In America showed a lot of leadership in serving as a place to gather hard information on degradation. You can get a sense of things here:

https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/vehicles.php

and here:

https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/L ... Survey.pdf

Without PIA stepping in and playing this role, I think it would have taken longer for all concerned (including Nissan) to have a full understanding of the experiences of some of the first adopters who ran into this issue. Without devices like the LeafDD, I think it would have been harder for PIA to gather the information. I particularly liked the LeafDD because, unlike some of the others, there were no wireless passwords or other issues to figure out. Just plug it in and you can see the data.

Anyway, you may have a point that figuring out the remaining charge down to a high decimal place is no big deal. I do think Nissan should do more to tell a bit more about remaining juice, but ok.

However, I think it should also be appreciated that these devices serve in a really interesting effort for all concerned to shed light on battery degradation concerns... both the big early concern that cropped up around that time, and then any concerns that may be ongoing with a variety of cars, as the years pass.
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

GregH
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:16 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 26967
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:23 am

Wow, First off, thank you everyone who has found some utility in the LeafDD! Are some of us obsessive number geeks? Well, yeah!!

Personally I just got so accustomed to seeing gids I paid almost no attention to the GOM. Especially when driving down to VLBW (which was all the more common in a car with only 9 or 10 capacity bars).

In an ICE, the GOM goes from 20 or 30mi to --- when the fuel light turns on.. how much is left? Who knows? Having an EV go from 4mi to --- is extremely frustrating when you only had 60 miles to start with.. How much is left? This is certainly quantifiable in an EV! Don't emulate an ICE! I found the Gids, Vpack and Cell Vmin extremely valuable more times than I'd like to admit.

I had my LeafDD wedged over the Eco tree on the left side.. When I went to return the car I started it and saw a red triangle on the dash.. Uh oh.. What's that? Oh.. Seat belt not on yet :)

Driving the Volt now I do sometimes miss the Gids display (probably about 200 on a full charge).. But then getting down to zero in a Volt is infinitely less consequential than doing so in a Leaf..
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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dgpcolorado
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:35 pm

Stoaty wrote:Ridiculous! The LeafDD prevents range anxiety.
Just so! I was pushing the range of the LEAF every time I went grocery shopping here in the mountains. LEAF DD made it really easy; LBW and VLBW became no big deal because I knew exactly how much I had left. Huge improvement over Nissan's useless GOM and nearly worthless fuel bars. It was also nice to know battery temp since I live in four seasons country and regen is limited with a cold battery, which affects descending steep hills.

I am surprised that Nissan didn't come up with a display of the similar information. It could be hidden in the menus except when selected by the driver, so no need to worry about confusing drivers who don't understand or need such things. Nissan's LCD ("Lowest Common Denominator") information display wasn't particularly helpful, to put it mildly.

When EVs routinely have ranges of 200 miles or more, such detailed information will become much less important. But for short range EVs it is very helpful have that info to be able to use the lower third of the battery with ease.
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
One car, no ICE, at last!
Tesla Referral Code

jjeff
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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
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Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:25 pm

I have a question for someone who knows LeafDD screens. On one of the main screens(the one with all the numbers, #2 screen I believe) it shows the charging/discharging amperage(right side 3rd row down) and below that and one column to the left it shows what I believe is EVSE max output current. On the actual charging/discharge amps mine shows ~9.5a when charging on my '12 Leaf but my EVSE is 16a max(as is the car) and my EVSE's actual current output display shows ~16a. Why the discrepancy? The difference between 16a and 9.5a is large, it can't be losses can it? I'm talking L2 charging and yes the actual EVSE current draw from the wall is 16a but again shows 9.5 on the LeafDD :?
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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Stanton
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Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:34 am

jjeff wrote:I have a question for someone who knows LeafDD screens. On one of the main screens(the one with all the numbers, #2 screen I believe) it shows the charging/discharging amperage(right side 3rd row down) and below that and one column to the left it shows what I believe is EVSE max output current. On the actual charging/discharge amps mine shows ~9.5a when charging on my '12 Leaf but my EVSE is 16a max(as is the car) and my EVSE's actual current output display shows ~16a. Why the discrepancy? The difference between 16a and 9.5a is large, it can't be losses can it? I'm talking L2 charging and yes the actual EVSE current draw from the wall is 16a but again shows 9.5 on the LeafDD :?


You lost me when you got to the part I marked in bold above: I don't believe those 2 numbers have any real meaning.
Disclaimer: it's possible you have a later version of the LeafDD firmware than I do (I had one of the first 10 units), but you could also answer your question with some sort of Watt meter (I show ~3700 Watts when charging).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
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Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

jjeff
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
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Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:29 am

Stanton wrote:
jjeff wrote:I have a question for someone who knows LeafDD screens. On one of the main screens(the one with all the numbers, #2 screen I believe) it shows the charging/discharging amperage(right side 3rd row down) and below that and one column to the left it shows what I believe is EVSE max output current. On the actual charging/discharge amps mine shows ~9.5a when charging on my '12 Leaf but my EVSE is 16a max(as is the car) and my EVSE's actual current output display shows ~16a. Why the discrepancy? The difference between 16a and 9.5a is large, it can't be losses can it? I'm talking L2 charging and yes the actual EVSE current draw from the wall is 16a but again shows 9.5 on the LeafDD :?


You lost me when you got to the part I marked in bold above: I don't believe those 2 numbers have any real meaning.
Disclaimer: it's possible you have a later version of the LeafDD firmware than I do (I had one of the first 10 units), but you could also answer your question with some sort of Watt meter (I show ~3700 Watts when charging).

Sorry, I suppose it was kind of irrelevant. Yes I believe that number(which shows 16a in my case with the 16a EVSE I use with the Leaf) is simply the maximum current the EVSE would allow, when I hooked up a 19a EVSE that number changed to 19a, but again I suppose it's kind of irrelevant other than show the car knows the EVSE is capable of 16a or 19a but only ~9.5a of that is going to the battery(if thats what the number on screen 2 right column 3rd row down means, and I think that is the case as the Youtube video I saw by GregH indicated that was what that number was.
Now I could see losses going to things like maybe charging the 12v battery?? or other things but 6.5a@240v(difference between actual wall current draw measured from the wall and what LeafDD says is going into the battery) is a very large difference IMO.
Again I know whats coming out of the wall(16a@240v) but I believe only 9.5a@240v is going to the traction battery(if I'm reading LeafDD correctly), I'm wondering if others are seeing this and why the big difference :?
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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gbarry42
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Location: Moonlight Beach

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:31 pm

Never really paid attention to that number, until now. I've been looking at it since you asked the question. Apparently, it is the current into or out of the battery. Look at the number right above--it's the battery voltage. Multiply these two together and you will have the power (in Watts) going into the battery. It will be the same as your mains current multiplied by the mains voltage (which is also shown below and to the left of the EVSE amp rating.

I confirmed this by watching that same number while driving. It gives the current into (regen) or out of (propulsion) the battery at all times, even when there's no plug in sight.
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

jjeff
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:52 pm

gbarry42 wrote:Never really paid attention to that number, until now. I've been looking at it since you asked the question. Apparently, it is the current into or out of the battery. Look at the number right above--it's the battery voltage. Multiply these two together and you will have the power (in Watts) going into the battery. It will be the same as your mains current multiplied by the mains voltage (which is also shown below and to the left of the EVSE amp rating.

I confirmed this by watching that same number while driving. It gives the current into (regen) or out of (propulsion) the battery at all times, even when there's no plug in sight.

That makes sense. Yes if I multiply the 9.6a I see by 380v I get 3648w and if I divide that by 240v(my mains) I get 15.2a or basically the output amperage of my EVSE(less probably some losses). I was thinking the amperage was at 240v but of course going into the battery it would have to be more than that, and DC as well.
I also noticed that number increase from regen or decrease basically from any traction battery draw.
Lastly, the 16a or 19a I saw and mentioned on that same screen(down one line and one column to the left of the charging amps) only shows up when hooked to an EVSE and charging, which makes sense.
Thanks
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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Stanton
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Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:48 pm

I have a question for the LeafDD owners out there who have had the 3G modem upgrade.
Noticed any change in the behavior of the main screen? As in the SOC% and TEMP don't update anymore (without flipping through other screens)?
It is my understanding that the current, voltage, and GID values are "pushed" by the car, but SOC and TEMP (among other things) require the CAN bus to be polled. I have done a "reset" on my LeafDD (unplug/plug), but it doesn't change the behavior; all other screens work as before.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

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