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Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:37 am
by jjeff
FalconFour wrote:
Also noticed 2 other quirks: severe burn-in, which is really noticeable when the screen goes solid-on* ... which itself is noticeable by the second quirk: the screen going all whacky when you touch the display pins on the back of the board, seems to flip different modes randomly like inverted-color, solid-on, flip, etc. I think some of those pins might be floating, missing pull-down resistors, that's what causes the craziness. And maybe even the "gibberish screen" issue mentioned by jjeff earlier.

The gibberish I saw earlier has gone away and knock on wood the LeafDD has been working fine ever since :)
I didn't do anything, it just went away by itself. It's basically mounted permanently(using a suction cup cell phone holder to a plastic disc glued to the dash) and the wiring runs under the steering wheel neatly up to the DD. I kind of like when the car is charging I can instantly look at the DD(as it turns on when ever charging, even with the car off) and tell the SOC, much more precise than the 3 blinking LEDs.
Good luck with your DD, a cool little device.

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:13 pm
by FalconFour
With some help from Greg, I put together this explainer for the page 2 display of the LeafDD - the big jumble of numbers page. :)

Image
(if the above image dies: it's a photo of the LeafDD with elements labeled A through J roughly clockwise from the top-center "S" value as item A, moving right, down the side, across the bottom, up to "H" in the center as item H, across the 4 left temperature values, then back down ending at "C" as item J)
  1. SOC% (S) (static) - This is the 4-decimal-precision raw state-of-charge value. At least in my 2014 Leaf, though, this is only updated back on the Page 1 display (big numbers).
  2. Gids (live) - self explanatory ;) The customary, proprietary unit of measurement of "how much energy is left in the battery". Good for range calculation.
  3. Voltage (live) - the voltage of the battery pack.
  4. Amperage (live) - amps going into/out of the battery.
  5. EVSE Amps (live?) - seems to only work on 2011-2012 Leafs - but this should show the amperage of the connected charging station.
  6. EVSE Volts (live?)- same as with amps, this should show voltage of the connected station.
  7. 12V Voltage (live) - this is the voltage of the 12V system. The 12V battery charges at 14.4v, and is "idle" at around 13v (neither consumed nor charged).
  8. Hx (H) (static?) - This is the infamous Hx. Not a representation of capacity, but - at least in my personal observation - seems to be more reflective of battery resistance/performance. Lower Hx = worse regen performance, higher heat production when charging/driving. Lots of discussions on this!
  9. Temps (static) - These are the 4 temperature sensors (3 in 2013+) of the battery, displayed in Celsius.
  10. Capacity (C) (static?) - This is the battery capacity in amp-hours (Ah). To calculate degradation, consider a new Leaf is around 66Ah, so divide (capacity)/66 to get a decimal percentage of new capacity (multiply by 100 to get percentage).
  11. (Dots in the corner) - Indication of LeafDD firmware version
Static = values only update when display is switched to other screens for a few seconds. Live = values update in real-time.
Still not quite known: the hex(?) value in the lower-right corner

Hope this helps some users - and of course, also hope that the image stays up for a while! ;)

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:59 pm
by jjeff
Thanks :)
I printed out your post, will be handy to keep in my '12 as I always have to think what all the "big jumble of numbers" means :lol:

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:06 pm
by jjeff
Well I did some testing and yes indeed, E is the maximum output of the EVSE, not what it's currently putting out or even the maximum of your car's charger, but EVSE max(at EVSE output voltage). I tested my 60a Juicebox and indeed it went up to 54a(not sure why not 60a) but until 54a it would increment one amp for each push of the button on my JB, of course my '12 would max out at 16a draw on my JB's display. Note D amperage on the LeafDD isn't the 120 or even 240v amps draw but rather the HV amps output to the battery(HV being voltage C). So D will always be a fair amount less than the current draw from the wall.
Oh and you can get rid of your ? mark after AMPS and VOLTS, they are indeed live :)
Edit:
Per this thread's OP-

"In V1.1.x the two numbers on the bottom right are just bytes from the passive CAN data I was interested in.. The first from 0x5fe to tell drive from charge mode and the 2nd is byte 7 from 0x5bf from the 2011/12 on board charger showing power (used to control an additional Brusa charger for those playing with that).
The top right corner has dots showing the version number."

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:22 pm
by FalconFour
Amps and volts from EVSE are reported live? So if you use the JB's remote and use the "OutC-" button to reduce the amperage, the limit gets shown on the Page 2 numbers display right away?

I'm the JuiceBox whisperer... ;) I helped design the newer JBs and am the last guy standing in support of the old ones, so I can almost definitely help explain why it's saying 53 :) Unless it's hard-wired, you don't want to exceed 40 amps anyway (on a 14-50 outlet)! The "60" was just a unit maximum rating slapped on the label, but all JBs were built-to-order with cables usually rated for 32 amps. They usually started off set at 30 amps. :geek:

edit: Ohhh, I mis-read. Weird, it has no hard-coded limitations to stick at 54A - the hard-coded limitation is at 60A. The trimpot on the board (which usually sets the current limit) gets an override from the remote/LCD control when the remote receiver/LCD is present. So that shouldn't matter. The only other thing would be WiFi control, and those old PUs don't usually hook nicely up to WiFi... so I'm guessing that shouldn't be the issue. May be good for a ULF firmware/WiFi upgrade, though...

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:40 pm
by jjeff
FalconFour wrote:Amps and volts from EVSE are reported live? So if you use the JB's remote and use the "OutC-" button to reduce the amperage, the limit gets shown on the Page 2 numbers display right away?

I'm the JuiceBox whisperer... ;) I helped design the newer JBs and am the last guy standing in support of the old ones, so I can almost definitely help explain why it's saying 53 :) Unless it's hard-wired, you don't want to exceed 40 amps anyway (on a 14-50 outlet)! The "60" was just a unit maximum rating slapped on the label, but all JBs were built-to-order with cables usually rated for 32 amps. They usually started off set at 30 amps. :geek:

Yes to your first question, also the HV amp draw (D) changes right away.
I love my Juicebox Premium, my first L2 EVSE! It's built like a tank and has never given me a problem, only drawback is it's quite heavy and bulky for a portable EVSE(which was a main reason for buying it years ago). My(factory built) JB has a 14-50 plug but funny thing is it has a molded plug but only has 10 gauge wire, that and the metric equivalent of 10 gauge for it's orange J1772 cable! I always thought it was a lawsuit waiting to happen(if it indeed could put out more than 30a)......back then(as I'm sure you are well aware) JB seemed to be a more seat of the pants company, more designed for techies like myself and other members on MNL than Joe Six Pack :D Up until now I wasn't sure if JB limited the actual output current of my EVSE to 32a(max for it's J1772 cable) or not. Like I thought they did not and just rely on the user(myself) to not exceed the maximum of either my circuit, J1772 cable or input cable. Personally I like being in control and not having the JB nanny me, of course lawyers don't see it that way :lol:
My JB Premium has all options except WiFi which I was not interested in, I much prefer my little RF remote to having to use my cell phone.
I'll probably never exceed 30a with my JB(I'd have to replace both power cable and J1772 cable) so it doesn't really hurt it stops incrementing at 54a, just was surprised it did as the big sticker said 60, again not that I'd even use 1/2 that.


Oh not sure if you noticed as I updated it after I originally posted it, but I did add a bit more to the end of my post before this one, explaining a few more of your questions about the LeafDD screen.

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:32 am
by lorenfb
FalconFour wrote:With some help from Greg, I put together this explainer for the page 2 display of the LeafDD - the big jumble of numbers page. :)

Image
(if the above image dies: it's a photo of the LeafDD with elements labeled A through J roughly clockwise from the top-center "S" value as item A, moving right, down the side, across the bottom, up to "H" in the center as item H, across the 4 left temperature values, then back down ending at "C" as item J)
  1. SOC% (S) (static) - This is the 4-decimal-precision raw state-of-charge value. At least in my 2014 Leaf, though, this is only updated back on the Page 1 display (big numbers).
  2. Gids (live) - self explanatory ;) The customary, proprietary unit of measurement of "how much energy is left in the battery". Good for range calculation.
  3. Voltage (live) - the voltage of the battery pack.
  4. Amperage (live) - amps going into/out of the battery.
  5. EVSE Amps (live?) - seems to only work on 2011-2012 Leafs - but this should show the amperage of the connected charging station.
  6. EVSE Volts (live?)- same as with amps, this should show voltage of the connected station.
  7. 12V Voltage (live) - this is the voltage of the 12V system. The 12V battery charges at 14.4v, and is "idle" at around 13v (neither consumed nor charged).
  8. Hx (H) (static?) - This is the infamous Hx. Not a representation of capacity, but - at least in my personal observation - seems to be more reflective of battery resistance/performance. Lower Hx = worse regen performance, higher heat production when charging/driving. Lots of discussions on this!
  9. Temps (static) - These are the 4 temperature sensors (3 in 2013+) of the battery, displayed in Celsius.
  10. Capacity (C) (static?) - This is the battery capacity in amp-hours (Ah). To calculate degradation, consider a new Leaf is around 66Ah, so divide (capacity)/66 to get a decimal percentage of new capacity (multiply by 100 to get percentage).
  11. (Dots in the corner) - Indication of LeafDD firmware version
Static = values only update when display is switched to other screens for a few seconds. Live = values update in real-time.
Still not quite known: the hex(?) value in the lower-right corner

Hope this helps some users - and of course, also hope that the image stays up for a while! ;)


You forgot to mention the battery internal resistance measurement which appears when a hard acceleration occurs from
a stop, which replaces the "G" for a one time display.

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:15 am
by jjeff
^^^ interesting, I haven't noticed that. How hard and for how long do you have to push on the accelerator to get that number to appear? Also how long does it display after it appears? I take it a higher internal resistance is worse than a lower one, what is a typical number and what number might mean a battery is getting weaker? My '12 is down to 9 bars and only has a capacity of 47 and Hx around 51, I'd imagine it's internal resistance would be quite a bit higher than a Leaf with a good battery.

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:35 pm
by lorenfb
jjeff wrote:^^^ interesting, I haven't noticed that. How hard and for how long do you have to push on the accelerator to get that number to appear? Also how long does it display after it appears? I take it a higher internal resistance is worse than a lower one, what is a typical number and what number might mean a battery is getting weaker? My '12 is down to 9 bars and only has a capacity of 47 and Hx around 51, I'd imagine it's internal resistance would be quite a bit higher than a Leaf with a good battery.


1. It takes about 10 seconds for it to sample the data.
2. It stays as long as you stay on that screen. Once the screen is changed, It will not be shown the next time that screen is displayed.
3. Yes, just like a lead-acid battery, a higher the resistance indicates aging and more heat developing as a function of load or charging.
4. The output resistance does change over time. I'll post my data taken over the last 3 years later today.

Re: LeafDD - Dash Display for Leaf

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:40 pm
by GregH
It looks for sustained low current (usually at a stop light.. in this condition it will put a single dot (5 pixels if I recall) on the first page somewhere) then if it sees max or near max current soon after (like a hard acceleration) it will sample the voltage and compare to rest voltage scaling by delta current. If it captures an impedance this way the single dot becomes two dots. At any point with the two dots (preferably when not driving) you can go to page 2 and see the impedance as well as pack temp and SOC at the time of the sample.

(This is only on later versions of LeafDD. Forget the version number..)