QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Thu May 19, 2016 8:34 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I didn't know leaving a LEAF run down for 14 days voids the warranty. I was planning to pick up a used one at OLO this weekend, for all I know it has been left dead for lengthy periods. Would that show up on the battery health test the dealer runs?


I guess I should be more clear. The warranty that came with 2011 LEAFs specifically says:
"This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting from or caused by:
Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
 Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.
 Physically damaging the lithium-ion battery or intentionally attempting to reduce the life of the lithium-ion battery.
 Exposing the lithium-ion battery to contact with a direct flame.
 Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).
 Immersing any portion of the lithium-ion battery in water or fluids.
 Opening the lithium-ion battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a Nissan LEAF certified technician.
 Neglecting to follow correct charging procedures.
 Use of incompatible charging devices.
 Consequential damage caused by the failure to repair an existing problem."

AFAIK no one here really knows what exact data is sent to Nissan so it's to know if Nissan would have any idea unless the pack got so low that the LEAF wouldn't even try to charge it back up.

What's interesting is reading the service manual there is a DTC for low total voltage. It doesn't mention this as a possible cause but does have you check each module's voltage and if not 5 volts then it tells you to replace it, may have to replace them all if this was the cause ;)

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LTLFTcomposite
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Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
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Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Thu May 19, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks for alerting me to that. You may have saved me from a multi thousand dollar mistake. My whole strategy behind getting the 2 1/2 year LEAF is based on losing four bars in the next 2 1/2 years and getting a lizard replacement for free. Based on our 2012 losing 3 bars in 3 years (and seemingly on the cusp of losing the 4th) it seems like a slam dunk in our climate. Nissan weaseling out of the capacity warranty could blow up the whole plan.
Offleaseonly has a bunch of these LEAFs collecting dust on their lots. I'm pretty sure many of them have been left turtled or worse for extended periods. The clocks are wrong on a lot of them. The Miami location doesn't even have an L2 station; just a single L1 that barely reaches to a single parking spot. The whole thing smells of abuse, probably beginning when the leases were grounded at the dealers.
I'm beginning to wonder if enough risk is priced out at $9-10k, even though most of these cars have only been in service for two years and have 14-21k miles.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Thu May 19, 2016 10:27 pm

I think your strategy is still good. I honestly wouldn't worry about it if the car is charged when you look at it. The clocks being wrong is more likely a sign that they left the 12 volt batteries connected and the LEAF didn't charge them like is very common. So 12 volt batteries would be of questionable condition. If you are still concerned having a Nissan dealership perform an inspection should be enough to confirm that any testing Nissan can actually do passes. To me the biggest concern would just be that the pack gets so low it can't be recharged by the car which of course you'd know right away.

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lpickup
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Leaf Number: 312310
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:50 am

mxp wrote:When did you purchase your car? If you have the time factor on your side, you might consider running the car down to turtle, and just leave it deep discharged for a few months. At some point in time, charge it back up and check the Ahr.


Wouldn't charging to 100% and letting it sit, ideally in a hot environment, do more to age the battery than letting it sit in a discharged state (and avoiding voiding the warranty)?

I'm also wondering about leaving the car on with the A/C running to cycle the battery without adding miles. I suppose this would prematurely wear out the A/C system components. Any thoughts?
...Lance

Coulis Red 2016 SV (312310)
Delivered: 12/23/16
Glacier Pearl 2012 SL (016138)
Delivered: 12/9/11; traded in 12/23/16
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TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:08 am

lpickup wrote:
Wouldn't charging to 100% and letting it sit, ideally in a hot environment, do more to age the battery than letting it sit in a discharged state (and avoiding voiding the warranty)?

I'm also wondering about leaving the car on with the A/C running to cycle the battery without adding miles. I suppose this would prematurely wear out the A/C system components. Any thoughts?

Question 1:
Both are against Nissan's recommendations.
My guess is discharged to pack disconnect is worse.
But I'm not aware of any test data on it.

Question 2:
Defrost set on 90F at maximum fan speed with windows and doors open does pull highest kW.
Does put a lot of wear and tear on system.
As in all lithium ion batteries the last discharge before it disconnects creates most battery heating.

But any effort to accelerate capacity loss is against warranty requirements.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

kolmstead
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:07 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000257
Location: Ridgecrest, California (100 miles east of Bakersfield)

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:48 pm

39.92 Ahr today, 60% SOH, 39.37 hx. It has lost nearly two Ahr this year and summer is just getting started. The car may become a 5-bar loser yet this year. 45,532 miles, 66 months.

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drees
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Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:12 am

kolmstead wrote:39.92 Ahr today, 60% SOH, 39.37 hx. It has lost nearly two Ahr this year and summer is just getting started. The car may become a 5-bar loser yet this year. 45,532 miles, 66 months.

Ouch, dropping like a rock. I wonder how far down you can run the battery before it's unable to produce 80 kW any more? At that point, I would think that it would qualify as defective under the primary 8-year 100k mile product warranty.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

kolmstead
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:07 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000257
Location: Ridgecrest, California (100 miles east of Bakersfield)

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:45 pm

I wonder if the power limitation would show in the accel/decel bubbles. If not, it is easy to floor the accelerator and see if I get the full 80 kW. Stands to reason, though, that at some point battery resistance will limit available current.

If last summer had been like this one, the car would probably have dropped the ninth bar and I'd have a new battery now. Instead we got an El Nino summer. And thanks to the rains this past winter, a bumper crop of foxtail (red brome) grass, which is what caused much of the destruction in last week's Erskine fire.

-Karl

Skip
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Delivery Date: 08 Apr 2016

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:20 am

I am 3 miles from 60K and still 9 bars. What is people's experience with claiming capacity warranty after mileage has passed? 100 miles over, 1000? Is it worth the fight?

It looks to me that the claim the Nissan will cover any capacity loss above 30% is false since I lost 33% already... The algorithm to determine number of bars is in their control -- just like a VW had an algorithm for diesel emission....

AHR Date SOH
46.59 12/7/2015
46.33 1/20/2016
45.47 3/9/2016
45.32 3/28/2016
45.07 4/6/2016 68%
44.93 4/16/2016
44.67 4/20/2016
44.5 5/1/2016 67
44.3 5/13/2016 67
44.15 5/19/2016 67
44.22 6/1/2016 67
44.03 6/29/2016 67

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lpickup
Posts: 983
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Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 312310
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact: Website

Re: Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:00 am

Skip wrote:I am 3 miles from 60K and still 9 bars. What is people's experience with claiming capacity warranty after mileage has passed? 100 miles over, 1000? Is it worth the fight?


I may be in this boat myself fairly soon. I've got about 2600 miles to go and am at 45.2 AHr.

In your case though, you still have to drop between 2 and 4 more AHr (it seems like most people report losing the 4th bar between 41 and 43 AHr of capacity).

While I'm sure your rate differs (in your case you showed DATES next to your AHr readings, but not mileages--it's probably more helpful to be looking at mileages), I am losing approximately 1 AHr every 1000 miles . So you will probably be in the 62-64K mileage range when you lose your next bar.

In my case I think I'm going to be closer. At my current rate of loss I expect to be at 42.6 AHr when I cross 60K. More or less depending on how hot things get I'm sure. It's at least feasible that it could click over by then, but that's still at the high range of what most people are reporting, so I am hoping for a scorching July & August.
...Lance

Coulis Red 2016 SV (312310)
Delivered: 12/23/16
Glacier Pearl 2012 SL (016138)
Delivered: 12/9/11; traded in 12/23/16
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