WetEV
Posts: 2263
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Mon May 14, 2018 7:18 pm

TobyYarwood wrote:Can someone please tell me why these two leafspy screenshots are so different?


The first is too good to be believable for a car with near 40,000 miles. The second would be very very good, for a car with 40,000 miles.

The BMS takes time to re-adjust to a more accurate value. That is what I think you are seeing as the report is now more accurate.

LeafSpy reads out the BMS's estimates of capacity. I've learned some ways that these estimates can be changed by driving/charging differently.

It is also possible to reset these estimates to factory new levels. This can be required to be done as part of some repairs/ firmware updates.


A brand new Leaf, zero miles, wouldn't read out as high as the first. While it is possible that under normal driving a better than average pack might get as high as the first Leafspy screen shot (67 AH, etc), at a 1000 miles or so, it will not be that good at near 40,000 miles. As far as I've seen, about the best would be to get near 100,000 miles before loss of 15% and the first bar. So I'd expect about 6% down at minimum at 40,000 miles. The second screenshot is doing slightly better than that. Now maybe a UK leaf battery is better than the US version, and maybe your weather is cooler than the coastal Pacific Northwest USA... I can't have a strong opinion on how accurate the second screenshot is.

To anyone buying a Leaf, if the Leafspy report is too good to be believed, don't believe it. It might not be intentional decept, but then again it might. Proving this would be challanging, at best.


Best bet would be to take a Leaf with known and accurately measured battery condition, and document what Leafspy shows before delivery to the dealer, and sell it to this dealer. Then see how it looks when the dealer shows a Leafspy report to a prospective purchaser. I'm not sure if this would be illegal...Or just embarrassing.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Mon May 14, 2018 7:39 pm

TobyYarwood wrote:Can someone please tell me why these two leafspy screenshots are so different? The dealer gave me the first to prove that the four year old batttery was in perfect condition and the history of daily commutes and slow charges seems to fit. One month later I got leafspy myself and took the second screenshot.

How can it get so much worse in a month? Either I’m doing something wrong or the dealer showed me a differently configured report..

I don’t know enough yet to decode it all. Please help me Turbo3 kenobi, you are my only hope..

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0nGY8gBYGSLbUi

Toby


I have been using LEAF Spy for a long time so I don't think that one version change would make a significant difference to the readings. I notice several things in looking at the two screenshots:
1. The dealer's screen was frozen, but that should not really matter as long as it was active long enough to get true readings.
2. The AHr, SOH, and Hx readings on the dealer's screen match the default values for a new battery with associated LBC (lithium battery controller) reset.
3. The dealer's screen shows cell voltages that look like a full charge, but SOC is shown as 19.4%. Your screen shows cell voltages commensurate with the SOC percentage.
4. There are a lot of charge cycles for the difference in mileage between the two screens. That implies the car may have been driven a few miles and then charged so that the battery stayed at full charge for extended time. If so, that could accelerate deterioration.

Possibilities that come to mind:
1. Shallow discharge cycles and gentle driving are causing the LBC to misjudge the actual battery capacity and health.
2. Battery was replaced, LBC is learning the characteristics of the new battery, and initial capacity loss is showing on your screen. If so, AHr, SOH, and Hx readings should stabilize soon in your mild climate.
3. The dealer reset the LBC without replacing the battery and the LBC is relearning the actual battery characteristics over time. If so, AHr, SOH, and Hx readings will continue to drop until they match the actual battery characteristics.

Perhaps someone else who is more familiar with LEAF Spy readings from cars in the UK will chime in with more information for you.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

ClarD
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:17 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2016

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Mon May 14, 2018 8:09 pm

GerryAZ wrote:I have been using LEAF Spy for a long time so I don't think that one version change would make a significant difference to the readings.


You could scroll backwards to find comments from people that saw a 2.5% drop from one version to another. The next version was supposed to have undone that change, but mine never returned to where it had been previously.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285&p=521536&hilit=drop+in+soh#p521536

GerryAZ
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Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Mon May 14, 2018 11:53 pm

ClarD wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:I have been using LEAF Spy for a long time so I don't think that one version change would make a significant difference to the readings.


You could scroll backwards to find comments from people that saw a 2.5% drop from one version to another. The next version was supposed to have undone that change, but mine never returned to where it had been previously.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285&p=521536&hilit=drop+in+soh#p521536


There is a significant amount of variation day to day, but I have not noted a consistent change between software versions with data from my 2015:
2/14/2018 0.41.109 SOH=74.05%
3/17/2018 0.41.111 SOH=74.34%
4/10/2018 0.42.116 SOH=75.42%
4/22/2018 0.42.116 SOH=74.08%

There is a high probability that the LBC in Toby's car was reset immediately before the dealer's LEAF Spy screenshot was recorded.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

Turbo3
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Posts: 1974
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Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 002191
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Mon May 14, 2018 11:59 pm

TobyYarwood wrote:Can someone please tell me why these two leafspy screenshots are so different? The dealer gave me the first to prove that the four year old batttery was in perfect condition and the history of daily commutes and slow charges seems to fit. One month later I got leafspy myself and took the second screenshot.

How can it get so much worse in a month? Either I’m doing something wrong or the dealer showed me a differently configured report..

I don’t know enough yet to decode it all. Please help me Turbo3 kenobi, you are my only hope..

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0nGY8gBYGSLbUi

Toby

The first screenshots looks like what you would see after a BMS reset. The second after the BMS has started to learn the real values.

Did you buy from a Nissan dealer?

DaveinOlyWA
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Tue May 15, 2018 6:12 am

ClarD wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:I have been using LEAF Spy for a long time so I don't think that one version change would make a significant difference to the readings.


You could scroll backwards to find comments from people that saw a 2.5% drop from one version to another. The next version was supposed to have undone that change, but mine never returned to where it had been previously.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... oh#p521536


irrc, that only applied to 2018's.

I don't really see anything "that" unusual. The pre 2018 LEAFs exhibited an extreme ability to bounce numbers around quite a bit. This is less than a 5 % swing. Definitely in the high range of possibility but still remains VERY possible.

Also keep in mind a change in driving habits would also account for easily half the difference here. I can post the same from my car if you like but this is hardly an unknown situation.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
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lpickup
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Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Tue May 15, 2018 6:23 am

TobyYarwood wrote:Can someone please tell me why these two leafspy screenshots are so different? The dealer gave me the first to prove that the four year old batttery was in perfect condition and the history of daily commutes and slow charges seems to fit. One month later I got leafspy myself and took the second screenshot.


The damning screenshots aside, a red flag would immediately go off in my mind if a dealer offered to show me a LeafSpy screenshot. I mean, that's a great thing to do, but if they come right out and offer it to you, that immediately makes me think they are up to something. And if it's only a screenshot and not a live shot, that's even more suspicious.

Having said that, as another poster commented, the car is still doing very well after 40K miles. My car is at 74% SOH after only 15K miles, so I wouldn't worry too much!
...Lance

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WetEV
Posts: 2263
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Leaf Spy Help!!

Tue May 15, 2018 7:46 am

GerryAZ wrote:2. The AHr, SOH, and Hx readings on the dealer's screen match the default values for a new battery with associated LBC (lithium battery controller) reset.


I've never seen a battery after a reset. Thanks. I've driven/charged a four year old battery with roughly a 10% capacity loss to the pegged values for AHr, SOH and Hx.

GerryAZ wrote:3. The dealer's screen shows cell voltages that look like a full charge, but SOC is shown as 19.4%.


This is really strange. Has anyone ever seen this before? Could a reset or new battery cause this?

GerryAZ wrote:Possibilities that come to mind:
1. Shallow discharge cycles and gentle driving are causing the LBC to misjudge the actual battery capacity and health.
2. Battery was replaced, LBC is learning the characteristics of the new battery, and initial capacity loss is showing on your screen. If so, AHr, SOH, and Hx readings should stabilize soon in your mild climate.
3. The dealer reset the LBC without replacing the battery and the LBC is relearning the actual battery characteristics over time. If so, AHr, SOH, and Hx readings will continue to drop until they match the actual battery characteristics.


4. Slower and deeper discharge cycles with DQCQs caused the LBC to overestimate the actual battery capacity and health. The LBC is relearning the actual battery characteristics over time. If so, AHr, SOH, and Hx readings will continue to drop until they match the actual battery characteristics.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

borugee
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:06 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 303100
Location: Dallas TX

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Tue May 15, 2018 6:26 pm

Turbo3 wrote:Release version 0.44.116 is the latest version of LeafSpy Pro.


Play store seems to have 0.44.116

My Phone has .42.116

When I go to play-store to install it say already installed and won't update to the lates.

If I uninstall-reinstall I will loose my history and settings.

Any trick to update without loosing my history?
Borugee
2018 SL ; 03/18 Delivery ; Dallas TX

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Tue May 15, 2018 7:47 pm

borugee wrote:
Turbo3 wrote:Release version 0.44.116 is the latest version of LeafSpy Pro.


Play store seems to have 0.44.116

My Phone has .42.116

When I go to play-store to install it say already installed and won't update to the lates.

If I uninstall-reinstall I will loose my history and settings.

Any trick to update without loosing my history?

You actually have the latest version.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

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