2013 Leaf S - what is your Ahr?

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

djjazzy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
54
Location
San Francisco, CA
New 2013 Leaf S owner, ran LeafSpy last week, and my Ahr capacity is 59.89
Am correct in reading that a New Leaf should be around 62.25?

See my screen shot:
leafspy02.png


Can any other 2013 Leafs take a look at their available Ahr?
and post their number. If a new Leaf should be around 62.25,
why is my 1 month old Leaf only at 59.89

Manufacture date: Aug 26, 2013
Drive off date: Sept 21, 2013
 
Probably normal. See

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I strongly recommend all new owners do a range test (the only sure way to tell if your battery is OK). The range test MUST go down to turtle to be valid. It will give the owner a much more secure feeling about driving the car.
 
Thanks for the reply. Lots of reading and info in that thread. I'll see if I
can squeeze in a test run from 100% to turtle. I know for sure that I got
LBW twice at 18% ( is that a good sign on a new 2013 Leaf? )
 
sorry, I'm still learning the terminology regarding all this SOC, %GID stuff, so
to clarify. I got LBW on the car's dash display at 18%.
Car shows Low Battery, and 'gas' gauage starts flashing.
This happened twice at exactly 18%. Never did get down to VLBW yet, but might
have to test that out as well as getting to turtle. So I should take the car all the way
down to turtle and note the total mileage on the full charge?
 
Take it down to VLBW (24 Gids) and maybe just a mile beyond.. but I don't know that I'd advise going all the way to turtle... That's the absolute low cell cut-off and probably not healthy for your battery. If you must take it all the way down, do so at very low current. Easiest way when you get down to 10-20 Gids is park in your garage, turn on the heater full blast and watch it bleed.
 
djjazzy said:
sorry, I'm still learning the terminology regarding all this SOC, %GID stuff, so
to clarify. I got LBW on the car's dash display at 18%.
Car shows Low Battery, and 'gas' gauage starts flashing.
This happened twice at exactly 18%. Never did get down to VLBW yet, but might
have to test that out as well as getting to turtle. So I should take the car all the way
down to turtle and note the total mileage on the full charge?

The dash SOC is not terribly useful in this situation. Probably better to use LeafSpy SOC (not the same as dash info). Total Gids is somewhat useful, but less so for 2013 Leafs since there is more energy held in reserve below VLBW than in prior year Leafs. GIDS are nonlinear, especially at low battery levels and especially so for 2013 Leafs.

For your range test, yes go from 100% to turtle and note miles. There are instructions:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8342" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To help planning your test you will probably get about 10 miles more than the GOM shows at 100%, assuming you have been driving at 4 or more mi/kwh. You want to be less than 1/2 mile from home when you hit turtle. When your SOC is 4% on LeafSpy you probably have about 2 miles before hitting turtle.
 
My Ahr bounces between 60.75 and 61.6 (first month of ownership, bought end Sept, manufacture date beginning Sept). This is for San Diego, CA where temps are pretty toasty and nice right now.
 
There are several types of numbers:

1. Those related to the fuel tank size, or capacity:
in an ICE, that is the 12 gallon tank. For an EV, that
is the battery capacity, or its usable capacity, usually
in Amp-Hours (a measure of the number of electrons
the battery will hold) or kilowatt-hours (a measure
of the energy that the battery can hold). In all cases,
it is the usable capacity that is of more interest
than the total capacity. For example, a half-gallon
sludge sump at the bottom of a gas tank would contain
gas (dirty) but the car might be designed to not use
that gas, to better protect the car.

2. Those related to the fullness of the tank, like the
typical gas gauge, usually from full (or "1") to empty
(or "0"). Often the gauge lies, trying to save us from
ourselves, having a below-empty, sometimes "hidden",
usable gas reserve. In the EV, this is often displayed as
the tank-fullness bars, or an SOC percentage, or the
unidentified percentage shown by the 2013 LEAF.

Usually the story stops here, but some EVs, like the LEAF,
have a variable size (capacity) fuel tank. An analogy in the
ICE would be a rubber tank that shrinks substantially
with use, with temperature, and with age. Then, knowing
that the tank is full does not tell us how much usable
fuel there is on board. If the tank shrunk to 50% of the
original "new" capacity, the "full" indication might mean
6 gallons instead of the original 12 gallons.

3. So, a third class of fuel-related numbers represent
the actual amount of fuel remaining in the tank. Since
the car runs on energy, measuring that fuel in energy
units, like watt-hours, or kilowatt-hours, or "therms"
is usually the most helpful. However, some "volume"
measurements are also used, like amp-hours, which
indicated the volume of electrons, but not their energy.

The ICE analogy is that applies is that the
gallon represents a volume of fuel, but not the
usable energy content. "Gas" might contain a
substantial amount of filler liquid, alcohol,
synthetic fuel, etc. that might have noticeably
less energy per gallon. When using such mixtures,
we get fewer miles on a tank. However, we mostly
ignore that aspect of the fuel and car performance.

Without knowing what number you are dealing with
makes the number difficult to compare with anything
else. The units are very important. For example,
apply 12 to a baby. What does it tell you?

12 pounds, 12 days, 12 fingers, 12 teeth, 12 weeks,...
you get the idea.

4. Last, is the estimated range, always based on
a guess of the future. You can guess your own
driving future better than the car can. But, a well
done Guess-o-Meter (GOM) could tell you something
useful: "If you keep driving just like you are driving
now, under the same conditions, you might expect
to achieve N more miles. " However, very few GOMs
do that. Most average your past driving over several
to many minutes or miles, and use that performance
as the basis of their GUESS.

Real life analogy: Someone tells you that the store
you are looking for is 2 km further down the street.
We generally take that to mean some estimate of
distance more than a quarter of a mile, and less
than 5 miles, not 2000.0 meters.

Hopefully this helps.
Happy November to all, Ho, Ho, Ho.
Gary
 
Gary,

That is the clearest, yet accurate and non-technical explanation of these concepts I have seen. Can you put it in the wiki or a sticky?
 
Hello djjazzy,
I picked up my 2013 S on September, Friday the 13th
I have hit LBW 3 times:
I started using LeafSpy on 9/16.
On 9/17, I charged to 80%.
LeafSpy reported:
Date............Time....Gids......SOC............AHr
9/17/2013....7:51....150....79.0625.........62.9475
9/17/2013..13:14......41....22.2816.........62.6597 Low Battery Warning
9/17: 13 miles remaining according to the range meter(or guess-o-meter,(GOM))

On 10/09 I charged to 100%
LeafSpy reported:
Date............Time....Gids......SOC............AHr
10/9/2013....7:59....266....95.9193.........62.1954
10/9/2013..14:27......39....21.4589.........62.6597 Low Battery Warning
10/9: 14 miles remaining according to the range meter(or guess-o-meter,(GOM))

On 10/16 I charged to 100%
LeafSpy reported:
Date............Time....Gids......SOC............AHr
10/16/2013...7:59....269....966228..........623916 (LeafSpy left out the decimal points for some reason)
10/16/2013.14:57......37....213600..........625158 Low Battery Warning
10/16: 12 miles remaining according to the range meter(or guess-o-meter,(GOM))

Ty
 
GregH said:
Take it down to VLBW (24 Gids) and maybe just a mile beyond.. but I don't know that I'd advise going all the way to turtle... That's the absolute low cell cut-off and probably not healthy for your battery. If you must take it all the way down, do so at very low current. Easiest way when you get down to 10-20 Gids is park in your garage, turn on the heater full blast and watch it bleed.

It is "common knowledge" (with very little actual evidence for the Leaf) that very low SOC (ie turtle) is hard on the battery. Nissan does not let you completely discharge the battery, it turns the car off soon after turtle mode starts. It MAY be hard on the battery to drain to turtle, and I have only done it once on my S, once on my SV, and only part of testing. The problem with the above advice is that if you don't DRIVE to turtle, you will never know how many miles you actually have between 100% and turtle, and between VLBW and turtle (good evidence that new 2013 Leafs with capacity readings between 59 and 62 have more miles between VLBW and turtle than other Leafs).

I do however, just in case, drive gently during the last couple of miles down to turtle (ie 4 or better mi/kwh style of driving) and immediately hook the car up to charge as soon as I arrive home.
 
djjazzy said:
New 2013 Leaf S owner, ran LeafSpy last week, and my Ahr capacity is 59.89
Am correct in reading that a New Leaf should be around 62.25?

See my screen shot:
leafspy02.png


Can any other 2013 Leafs take a look at their available Ahr?
and post their number. If a new Leaf should be around 62.25,
why is my 1 month old Leaf only at 59.89

Manufacture date: Aug 26, 2013
Drive off date: Sept 21, 2013

AH was around 63 when new at the end of Feb., 2013, manufactured in Jan.
It dipped to a little over 55 AH this summer, but now is at 56.3 since the cooler weather.
 
babynuke said:
Hello djjazzy,
I picked up my 2013 S on September, Friday the 13th

I started using LeafSpy on 9/16.


On 10/16 I charged to 100%
LeafSpy reported:
Date............Time....Gids......SOC............AHr
10/16/2013...7:59....269....966228..........623916 (LeafSpy left out the decimal points for some reason)
10/16/2013.14:57......37....213600..........625158 Low Battery Warning
10/16: 12 miles remaining according to the range meter(or guess-o-meter,(GOM))

Ty


Sure seems like my capacity is lower than what it should be for a 6 week old 2013 Leaf S
with only 1094 miles. Just ran LeafSpy again today:

OD=1094 QC#1 L1/L2#64
11/01/2013 Ahr=59.19 (90.22%) Hlth=90.22%
SOC=65.8% GIDS=163 Batt Temp=65.3

First time I ran LS on 10/23/13, my Ahr capacity was 59.89
car was barely 1 month old.

Do I complain to the dealer about my Ahr capacity being ' low ' as
compared to other new Leafs. Would the dealer even listen to my complaint
since I got this info from LeafSpy. Would they even consider a claim of
low Ahr capacity, with the info extracted from the LeafSpy app?

Suggestions? Thanks!
 
LEAFfan said:
AH was around 63 when new at the end of Feb., 2013, manufactured in Jan.
It dipped to a little over 55 AH this summer, but now is at 56.3 since the cooler weather.
Ouch, after one Phoenix summer you're down to the capacity of a 2-year old LEAF in most of Southern California. Looks like the '13 LEAFs aren't significantly better than the '11-12 LEAFs in the heat resistance department. Also interesting to see that your Ah readings have climbed a whole Ah - post P3227 update on m y '11 I have not seen any significant increase despite fall weather, though pack temps are on average only about 5-10F cooler.

djjazzy said:
Do I complain to the dealer about my Ahr capacity being ' low ' as
compared to other new Leafs. Would the dealer even listen to my complaint
since I got this info from LeafSpy. Would they even consider a claim of
low Ahr capacity, with the info extracted from the LeafSpy app?
As others have noted, it seems that some '13 LEAFs come with an Ah reading around 60 Ah, but when range tested, show a normal amount of range with the extra range hidden between turtle and VLBW. So your battery is very likely OK. If you want to confirm it you would ideally run a range test and then measure the amount of energy used to charge back up to 100% after discharging to turtle.
 
2013 SV.

In April when it was about 1 month old with about 1000 miles, I saw readings from 60.52 to 62.33 AH at various SOC from 12.1% to 97.0% and battery temp at 40-70 degrees. During that week I did a 124 miles from full charge to VLB, never hit turtle.

63 AH for a brand new 2013 sounds more like it than 65.6. It would be interesting to hit the new car lot with the ELM.
 
My first post so welcome.

I've just plugged in my LeafDD for the first time and what I saw concerns me a little bit:
C -> 58.9842
H -> 89.79

if those numbers are what I think they are it seems like I'm screwed before I even drove 500 miles (SV delivered on 11/14)?
 
Tomasz said:
My first post so welcome.

I've just plugged in my LeafDD for the first time and what I saw concerns me a little bit:
C -> 58.9842
H -> 89.79

if those numbers are what I think they are it seems like I'm screwed before I even drove 500 miles (SV delivered on 11/14)?

Well, those numbers are very likely NOT what you think they are. These numbers are derived by smart people on these forums that have reverse engineered data they have captured from the car's computer. Nissan has not verified the validity of any of this information. There is pretty good evidence that the capacity measure is approximately the capacity of the battery, but it varies quite a bit for reasons that are not at all clear and not expected from an actual capacity measure of the battery. Apparently the car's computer "massages" the data in ways that are unknown. I have 2 Leafs (2013) one has measured between 58.68 min to 61.40 max. It was 60.3 when I got it, was 60.69 when I measured it yesterday. The other has ranged from 58.25 to 61.59. It was 60.39 when new, was 61.18 yesterday. I really doubt the batteries are "better than new." Both are about 5 mo old and have about 5500 miles on them.

The H values (SOH, Health, Hx, etc) are completely mysterious. They were initially labeled as Health, any may have SOME relationship to the state of the battery, but these values are really currently useless until others smarter than me can figure out what they mean.

The ONLY way you can actually tell what condition your battery is in is by doing a range test from 100% to turtle (it must go clear to turtle, not near turtle, but real turtle). For your own peace of mind, I strongly recommend you do that.
 
most of the time i do QC,after every QC the battery is getting better.when i bought the leaf ,i had 60,5 Ahr,now,after 23 QC i have 66,2 Ahr and Hx 101,12,
and SOH 100%,
288GIDs
i drive it down to SOC 10-15% and do QC to SOC 95%

odo 3.296km(2.060mi)
 
xado1 said:
most of the time i do QC,after every QC the battery is getting better.when i bought the leaf ,i had 60,5 Ahr,now,after 23 QC i have 66,2 Ahr and Hx 101,12,
and SOH 100%,
288GIDs
i drive it down to SOC 10-15% and do QC to SOC 95%

odo 3.296km(2.060mi)

Thanks, interesting info. Again, confirms what I have been saying, the car's computer massages the data in ways we do not understand, unless you think your battery now has 10% more capacity than when you bought it. If so, all those who want more range could just QC all the time, maybe the range can be increased to 150miles if people just QCd more. ;-)
 
Back
Top