johnlocke
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:07 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.


Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)

Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

bedoig
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Oct 2013

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:23 pm

I'm thinking it's more the elevation changes than the temperature in your case. I'm in Houston with 100+ temperatures and intense humidity and I could do 120 miles plus when brand new. Now I'm more like 80-90 with degradation. Haven't done BMS update yet. Car has actually been in the shop for two months after a fairly minor fender bender (got rear ended with damage to front and rear bumpers).

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13141
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:27 pm

johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Update on battery. After two months of hot weather there doesn't appear to be any deterioration. Stats are 363 GID's 82.04 AH SOH 103.22% Hx 96.15% 0 DCFC 55 L2. 2696 mi on new battery 47725 mi on the car. Hx has dropped by 1% but that's the only change I see. I still think I need to see a year's worth of data before I have any real confidence in the new battery and the software change.


Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)

Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.


Elevation shouldn't be a killer if driven "modestly." Do you feel like you have the "new car" range back?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:04 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Great initial report but what is farthest you have driven? Largest DoD?

Unless you pop off a 110 mile run, we hold judgment. ;)

Never going to happen. Due to the terrain where I'm living, best I'm ever going to get is about 90 mi. Changing to Michelin Defenders cost me about 5-6% mileage as well. It was a trade off for durability and better handling over the stock tires. I have discharged the battery down to 3% at 84 miles or so (hot day, A/C blasting, 2000 ft elevation change each way). On flat terrain, in cooler weather, I could probably get 110 mi on a charge. but I live up in the mountains where the temps hit 100 regularly. Maybe during the spring or fall i might get 95 mi to turtle with careful driving but that's about it.


Elevation shouldn't be a killer if driven "modestly." Do you feel like you have the "new car" range back?

Going back uphill takes twice the energy as going down. I use about 5 KWH going in and 10 KWH coming home. With careful driving and minimal A/C, I can average 3.7 mi/KWH on my 55 mi round trip commute and end up with 45-47% left when I arrive home. That's about the same range as I had with the car when new although back then the driving was a bit more spirited and I wasn't worried about range. The tire change seemed to have the most effect with a drop of about 13% when the tires were new. After 10,000 mi., the loss is about 5-6%. I'm not entirely happy about that but it was a trade off for better traction and a 90,000 mi tire warranty. Tires are kept at 44 PSI cold.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

johnlocke
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:18 pm

Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13141
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:34 pm

johnlocke wrote:Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.


In reality, your old battery probably didn't lose much if at all.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:35 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.


In reality, your old battery probably didn't lose much if at all.

No way to actually tell. All I can go by is the recorded values I have. Perception is reality for most people. It was enough for Nissan to replace the battery an any case. All I can do is compare results. If the software or the new battery improves the longevity over the old battery I really don't care which one causes it. Until I see actual reports of improved capacity (more actual miles per charge) from owners with the software update, the jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

WetEV
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:25 am

johnlocke wrote:jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.


It seems pretty clear that the only thing the update does is change the numbers that LeafSpy reports, and that determine how many capacity bars to show.

The important question is: Is the new firmware more accurate than the old firmware?

Capacity estimation is a hard subject, there are some good papers on the difficulties, but they all seem to be behind paywalls. This is why most EV makers hide any capacity estimates from the user. Nissan is more open on this topic, and is due credit for being so.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

johnlocke
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:27 pm

WetEV wrote:
johnlocke wrote:jury is still out on what the update does other than change the numbers that LeafSpy reports.


It seems pretty clear that the only thing the update does is change the numbers that LeafSpy reports, and that determine how many capacity bars to show.

The important question is: Is the new firmware more accurate than the old firmware?

Capacity estimation is a hard subject, there are some good papers on the difficulties, but they all seem to be behind paywalls. This is why most EV makers hide any capacity estimates from the user. Nissan is more open on this topic, and is due credit for being so.

If the firmware update changes the AH values then we should expect to see more GID's then before the update and an increase in range. People have reported the change in AH but so far I haven't seen any reports of higher GID's values or any increase in range. If the range doesn't change after the upgrade then Nissan is just jerking us around and trying to avoid warranty claims. If the car shows 12 bars but only gets 65-70 miles to a charge then the only thing Nissan fixed is their warranty issue not the battery. I can't make that comparison since I had the battery changed and the update done at the same time. We need owners who were down 2-3 bars and are now back up to 12 bars to report their GID's value at full charge from both before and after the update and if they have noticed any increase in overall range since the update.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

WetEV
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:44 am

johnlocke wrote:We need owners who were down 2-3 bars and are now back up to 12 bars to report their GID's value at full charge from both before and after the update and if they have noticed any increase in overall range since the update.


While GIDs seem useful, I don't know exactly what they are. They seem to be about 75 Wh, more or less at different temperatures and at different SOCs. If a version of the BMS firmware isn't reporting capacity correctly, then GIDs might or might not be any better.

Is the reported capacity more correct before or after the upgrade? Here are some measurements. Do you have any better measurements?

Image

Image

Source:

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-ni ... reporting/
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Return to “LEAF CANBus”