LeftieBiker
Posts: 9063
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:56 pm

Valdemar wrote:Pathetic, that is significantly worse even than a typical 2011 Leaf. It just doesn't bode well for the 40kwh pack.


No, indeed. Given the low NMAC residual, I would encourage anyone considering buying a 2018 Leaf to lease one, instead. I for one am going to try to get them to raise the residual enough to make it less painful if I turn the car in.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rcm4453
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:01 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Valdemar wrote:Pathetic, that is significantly worse even than a typical 2011 Leaf. It just doesn't bode well for the 40kwh pack.


No, indeed. Given the low NMAC residual, I would encourage anyone considering buying a 2018 Leaf to lease one, instead. I for one am going to try to get them to raise the residual enough to make it less painful if I turn the car in.


Why not just wait for the 2019 Leaf? Will be so much better and won't have a battery that's total garbage!

Valdemar
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:53 pm

rcm4453 wrote:..2019 Leaf.. won't have a battery that's total garbage!


I agree, it will still be garbage, just not total :lol:
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

johnlocke
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:19 pm

Feb update on battery stats. Actually there's been almost no change from Jan apart from dropping the third bar in early Jan. Mileage stands at 39550 mi. 52.81 AH, 246 GID's, 67.70% SOH, 59.15% Hx. I'm now charging the battery at every opportunity and keeping the battery at full charge overnight in hopes of forcing the fourth bar to drop. Doesn't seem to have made any difference though. I'm starting to think that battery degradation is only a function of time and temperature. If true it doesn't bode well owners of 30KWH cars, Everybody is going to have replace their batteries before the warranty expires and some of us are going to do it a couple of times.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

johnlocke
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:33 pm

March update. 244 GID's at full charge. 53.13AH SOH = 66.85% Hx = 58.50% 40700 mi. 86 L3 charges. 778 L2 charges. February saw a small drop in capacity but the the biggest difference is in the L3 charge rate. Lower initial charge rate (85 Amps vs 106 Amps when new) and faster tapering of charge rate as it charges the battery. On a L3 charger, charge rate starts to taper off at about 80% and by 90% is down to 16 amps or less. I can no longer get to a full charge in 30 minutes even with a 50% charge when I start. L2 at home charges to 100% no problem. All the cells are in good balance (15 mv typically) so there's no bad cell causing this. I have to think that the BMS is limiting the charge rate.

I'm just above the range to lose the fourth bar. As the weather warms up here, I expect to lose the fourth bar in April or May. I'd be surprised if it holds out until June. So much for it being a 100,000 mile battery. As it stands now I end up having to stop somewhere 2-3 times a week to add enough charge to make sure I can get home safely.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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drees
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Posts: 6219
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:41 pm

johnlocke wrote:I have to think that the BMS is limiting the charge rate.

What's the total pack voltage when it starts tapering? It should be over 390V, probably 392-396V or so. I would guess that it's the pack's internal resistance which has gone up and is limiting the charge rate.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

lorenfb
Posts: 1802
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:51 pm

drees wrote:
johnlocke wrote:I have to think that the BMS is limiting the charge rate.

What's the total pack voltage when it starts tapering? It should be over 390V, probably 392-396V or so. I would guess that it's the pack's internal resistance which has gone up and is limiting the charge rate.


The internal resistance on the 24kWhr battery is about 60 mohms (.06 ohms) at 25C. So at 100 amps
charging, the voltage drop is only about 6 volts. Since the 30kWhr battery will have a little lower
Internal resistance, it's voltage drop will be a little less at 100 amps.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6219
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:41 pm

Those resistance values are for discharge and assume a new battery. We're talking about a 30 kWh battery that's lost a lot of capacity, it's no surprise that it's internal resistance will be higher, especially while charging.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

lorenfb
Posts: 1802
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:56 am

drees wrote:Those resistance values are for discharge and assume a new battery. We're talking about a 30 kWh battery that's lost a lot of capacity, it's no surprise that it's internal resistance will be higher, especially while charging.


Not really! Here are my data from my '13 Leaf taken over the last 4+ years:

11/20 -13,700 miles, 76 mohms per LeafDD, 20 Deg, 73% SOC
11/27 -13,800 miles, 67 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 63% SOC
11/30 - 13,900 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 71% SOC
12/2 - 14.100 miles, 55 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg, 67% SOC
12/16 - 14,500 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 15 deg, 93% SOC
12/27/14 - 14,800 miles, 103 mohms per LeafDD, 11 deg, 24% SOC
3/10 - 17,400 miles, 60 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 73% SOC
3/14 - 17, 550 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 32 deg, 47% SOC
4/14 - 19,100 miles, 59 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg. 38% SOC
5/4 - 19,989 miles, 64 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg. 48% SOC
5/15 - 20,400 miles, 73 mohms per LeafDD, 20 deg. 41% SOC
5/22 - 20,700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg. 50% SOC
12/10/15 - 28,000 miles, 90 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg. 92% SOC
4/5 - 32,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg, 55% SOC
5/16 - 33,700 miles,89 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 47% SOC
5/16 - 33.700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 31 deg, 76% SOC
10/5 - 39,300 miles, 100 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 50% SOC
10/6 - 39,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 51% SOC
10/7 - 39,500 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 56% SOC
10/15 - 40,000 miles, 71 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 45% SOC
10/30 - 41,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 66% SOC
12/26/16 - 43,000 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 13 deg, 77% SOC
6/10/17 - 49,600 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg, 70% SOC
7/1/17 - 51,000 miles, 62 mohms per LeafDD, 33 deg, 44% SOC
8/15/17 - 53,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 35 deg, 57% SOC

Yes, as capacity is lost the resistance will increase, e.g. maybe 2-3X over its life. So when you start at 60 mohms when new,
maybe at worst case it's about 120-180 mohms. As the data indicate, the resistance hasn't really changed all that much
over 4 years, 60K miles, and a loss of about 12 Ahrs of capacity. Also remember, as the battery heats up, e.g. charging,
the resistance decreases.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

vishvik
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:27 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2016
Leaf Number: 312128
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:37 pm

Hi, I have a 2016 Leaf SV (leased in July 2016) and have about 22K miles. Last week, I lost my 3rd capacity bar!! I still have 16 months to go on my 3-year lease. Wondering what's the best option for me going forward. I didn't take it to the dealership yet to figure out what's going on.

I ordered "LELink Bluetooth Low Energy BLE OBD-II OBD2 Car Diagnostic Tool" and intend to use LeafSpy to get additional info.

My Atlanta daily commute is 60 miles and I go to work 4 days a week. I use a level-2 charger each night.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

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