johnlocke
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:38 pm

Another report of a 2 bar loser in AZ.

"I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. "

It definitely looks like the percentage values for the loss of bars has changed and not in a good way. If this guy is down to 65% capacity and is only down 2 bars, where the Hell is a 4 bar loss going to be? 50% 40% Something less?
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

Durandal
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:30 am

johnlocke wrote:Another report of a 2 bar loser in AZ.

"I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. "

It definitely looks like the percentage values for the loss of bars has changed and not in a good way. If this guy is down to 65% capacity and is only down 2 bars, where the Hell is a 4 bar loss going to be? 50% 40% Something less?


If that SoH is correct, then it looks like Nissan has changed where the bars get lost in order to minimize warranty replacements. They may be setting themselves up for another lawsuit. I've brought it up a dozen times before, but I'll bring it up again, but Nissan tries to sweep things under the rug. Just do a google search for (Nissan CVT failure) and you'll see where for certain year models they extended the CVT warranty on cars like the Juke, etc, to 100,000 miles, while others like the 2014 Versa that I have in addition to my Leaf, had the CVT warranty expire at 60,000 miles. (Our CVT started experiencing problems at 15,000 miles and finally failed at 45,000 miles so I expect that since our replacement started having issues again at 63,000 miles that this replacement one will fail at 90,000-95,000 miles.) Nissan Versa forums have many others with the issue, yet Nissan will not extend the warranty on the CVTs on these cars to 100,000 miles. If ours goes out prior to 100,000 miles, I will talk about the matter with my lawyer, if we don't manage to get rid of the car before then.

Back to the Leaf, however, since the warranty isn't based upon % capacity, but based on bars, if they change the metrics that the bars are based around, they're gaming the system. I fear what Nissan will do to the reputation of BEVs when people are buying the 2018 Leaf and 3 years into ownership, their 150 mile range BEV only gets 105-110 miles. I think they'll howl.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

Valdemar
Posts: 2403
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:12 am

Durandal wrote:If that SoH is correct, then it looks like Nissan has changed where the bars get lost in order to minimize warranty replacements.


Surprise, surprise...
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

samrovner
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:48 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2016
Leaf Number: 310120
Location: Surprise, AZ

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:23 pm

Durandal wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Another report of a 2 bar loser in AZ.

"I have a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh battery that has lost two bars. The first was around 12k miles, and the second at 17k miles. My car is now at 19,800 miles and I FINALLY bought Leaf Spy and an OBDII adapter because my range has dropped considerably in the past month or so. My stats are as follows, AHr = 52.31, SOH = 65%, and Hx = 61.23%. "

It definitely looks like the percentage values for the loss of bars has changed and not in a good way. If this guy is down to 65% capacity and is only down 2 bars, where the Hell is a 4 bar loss going to be? 50% 40% Something less?


If that SoH is correct, then it looks like Nissan has changed where the bars get lost in order to minimize warranty replacements. They may be setting themselves up for another lawsuit. I've brought it up a dozen times before, but I'll bring it up again, but Nissan tries to sweep things under the rug. Just do a google search for (Nissan CVT failure) and you'll see where for certain year models they extended the CVT warranty on cars like the Juke, etc, to 100,000 miles, while others like the 2014 Versa that I have in addition to my Leaf, had the CVT warranty expire at 60,000 miles. (Our CVT started experiencing problems at 15,000 miles and finally failed at 45,000 miles so I expect that since our replacement started having issues again at 63,000 miles that this replacement one will fail at 90,000-95,000 miles.) Nissan Versa forums have many others with the issue, yet Nissan will not extend the warranty on the CVTs on these cars to 100,000 miles. If ours goes out prior to 100,000 miles, I will talk about the matter with my lawyer, if we don't manage to get rid of the car before then.

Back to the Leaf, however, since the warranty isn't based upon % capacity, but based on bars, if they change the metrics that the bars are based around, they're gaming the system. I fear what Nissan will do to the reputation of BEVs when people are buying the 2018 Leaf and 3 years into ownership, their 150 mile range BEV only gets 105-110 miles. I think they'll howl.



I'm that "2 bar loser in AZ" (I've been called worse! lol) Here's the screenshot I took this morning after charging my car overnight. While I did gain .01 on my AHr, my SOH is still 65%, and my Hx is now slightly lower. All of this is directional of course, but I miss starting my car and seeing 123 miles on the GOM, and now I see about 1/3rd of that and have anywhere from 80-84 miles on the GOM. My point is that it really does feel like I lost a 1/3rd of the battery and the stats back that up.

https://app.box.com/s/8sgil51ittsj03f9vqp8f4nps8mc2el8

Durandal
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:36 pm

samrovner wrote:
I'm that "2 bar loser in AZ" (I've been called worse! lol) Here's the screenshot I took this morning after charging my car overnight. While I did gain .01 on my AHr, my SOH is still 65%, and my Hx is now slightly lower. All of this is directional of course, but I miss starting my car and seeing 123 miles on the GOM, and now I see about 1/3rd of that and have anywhere from 80-84 miles on the GOM. My point is that it really does feel like I lost a 1/3rd of the battery and the stats back that up.

https://app.box.com/s/8sgil51ittsj03f9vqp8f4nps8mc2el8

That really stinks man! 52.32 ah! You've got less capacity left than a brand new 24kWh pack! Try a 100% to 5% range test and see what you get. but in any case, it certainly does appear like you've lost 1/3 of your capacity, and for the Leaf to only claim 2 bars lost is not representative of the lost percentages. I suspect they've modified it from the original 15% on bar 1 and 8% on remaining bars to be 20% on bar 1 and who knows on the rest.

Are you leasing, or did you buy this? If leasing, at least you can offload it.. If buying, even though they're fudging on the metrics, you'll likely get a replacement battery, but the Leaf may be unusable for your use case before that happens. How long is your commute?
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

samrovner
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:48 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2016
Leaf Number: 310120
Location: Surprise, AZ

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Durandal wrote:
samrovner wrote:
I'm that "2 bar loser in AZ" (I've been called worse! lol) Here's the screenshot I took this morning after charging my car overnight. While I did gain .01 on my AHr, my SOH is still 65%, and my Hx is now slightly lower. All of this is directional of course, but I miss starting my car and seeing 123 miles on the GOM, and now I see about 1/3rd of that and have anywhere from 80-84 miles on the GOM. My point is that it really does feel like I lost a 1/3rd of the battery and the stats back that up.

https://app.box.com/s/8sgil51ittsj03f9vqp8f4nps8mc2el8

That really stinks man! 52.32 ah! You've got less capacity left than a brand new 24kWh pack! Try a 100% to 5% range test and see what you get. but in any case, it certainly does appear like you've lost 1/3 of your capacity, and for the Leaf to only claim 2 bars lost is not representative of the lost percentages. I suspect they've modified it from the original 15% on bar 1 and 8% on remaining bars to be 20% on bar 1 and who knows on the rest.

Are you leasing, or did you buy this? If leasing, at least you can offload it.. If buying, even though they're fudging on the metrics, you'll likely get a replacement battery, but the Leaf may be unusable for your use case before that happens. How long is your commute?



A lot of this lingo is new to me so I'm not sure exactly what this means, but a full charge shows 239 GIDs. How many GIDs is a new 30kWh pack? My guess is somewhere around 360? I really want to know what the thresholds are for a 4 bar loss, and now that I have Leafspy I'm actually looking forward to losing my 3rd bar and seeing where it's at. It's cooling down a little in Phoenix, but not a lot, and I feel like I'm going to lose that 3rd bar soon.

I am leasing, but I ALMOST decided to buy it. So glad I didn't. My reasoning to purchase was that after 3 years the degradation would put it at a new 24kWh pack. My decision to not buy it is that I wanted a car with better safety tech (semi-autonomous), and I knew that was on the horizon.

My commute is 65 miles roundtrip. I do have access to 120v charging at work, but I thought I left that hassle behind with my 2013 LEAF.

Valdemar
Posts: 2403
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:19 pm

Durandal wrote:That really stinks man! 52.32 ah! You've got less capacity left than a brand new 24kWh pack!


I'll say more, it is less than I have on a 18 m/o 24kWh replacement pack with about 30k miles on it.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

bedoig
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Oct 2013

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:08 pm

It looks like this might be the more comprehensive thread, so I'm cross-posting from here (sorry if that's a no-no): http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&start=210

Another 2016 30 kWh owner checking in with rapid capacity loss compared to the 2013 model I had previously. I'll add all my stats later, but I'm showing around 22.5 kWh usable capacity with SOH of 79% and Hx of 76%. When the car was new I could easily go 120-130 miles and now I'm down to about 100. I've still got all 12 bars on the dash.

I hadn't paid much attention in recent months since the range is still adequate for my commute of about 65 miles. I also moved recently and don't have a L2 installed at my house yet so I've been doing strictly L1 charging and probably a weekly QC. When I first started noticing the diminished range over the last couple weeks I assumed my pack was just out of balance since I wasn't regularly getting to 100% charge. My max voltage differential at low battery is only around 12 mV though and that's only 6 at high charge.

Pretty disappointing. I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm curious where most people are losing their first bar? I'm shocked that a 20% capacity loss hasn't triggered it. I agree with the sentiments expressed here that this looks like deliberate obfuscation by Nissan.

SageBrush
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:14 pm

My guess: a 30 kWh LEAF is a 24 kWh LEAF in sheep's clothing.
Nissan will have exceeded my expectations for underhanded behavior if the 30 kWh model has to drop BELOW the threshold capacity of a 24 kWh model before the degradation warranty kicks in. Much more likely I think that they will be the same, so about 42 Ahr.

42 Ahr is ~ 15 kWh, so about 55 - 60 miles of EPA range. That works out to ~ 50-55% remaining capacity of a 30 kwh model

The next question is whether Nissan will have the gall to pull this crap with the LEAF2. I've got a ring-side seat (free!) and popcorn, but my EV dollars are not going to be gambled on Nissan.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Joe6pack
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:57 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 025854

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:34 am

Can you folks please put your information (location, mileage, etc.) in your signature so that we know the environment we're dealing with.

Thanks.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

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