DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11804
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:54 am

johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.


build date and estimated time on lot?

Build date is 10/15. Delivery Date was 12/15/15. Lot time was probably less than 2 weeks. I wasn't planning on buying that day since I was looking for an SV with cloth seats but ended up with a loaded SL anyway.



so one of the first 30 kwh packs. This could be significant. Nissan has always continuously tweaked their batteries to eek out a better product.

what was your highest ahr/ GID reading?

I ask because mine is 363 but now seeing others with more recent build dates reporting 364. Might seem insignificant to most but to me a clear indication that the pack is a constantly evolving product.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:34 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
build date and estimated time on lot?

Build date is 10/15. Delivery Date was 12/15/15. Lot time was probably less than 2 weeks. I wasn't planning on buying that day since I was looking for an SV with cloth seats but ended up with a loaded SL anyway.



so one of the first 30 kwh packs. This could be significant. Nissan has always continuously tweaked their batteries to eek out a better product.

what was your highest ahr/ GID reading?

I ask because mine is 363 but now seeing others with more recent build dates reporting 364. Might seem insignificant to most but to me a clear indication that the pack is a constantly evolving product.

Highest AH reading was 79.88. GID's was 363. GID's appears to be limited internally by software. Members have reported AH readings as high as 82 AH which should yield a GID's value around 374 but we don't see that. The best value I can come up with for a GID is 79W/GID based on a nominal 360vdc multiplied by the AH reading and divided by the number of GID's. YMMV.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11804
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:03 am

johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Build date is 10/15. Delivery Date was 12/15/15. Lot time was probably less than 2 weeks. I wasn't planning on buying that day since I was looking for an SV with cloth seats but ended up with a loaded SL anyway.



so one of the first 30 kwh packs. This could be significant. Nissan has always continuously tweaked their batteries to eek out a better product.

what was your highest ahr/ GID reading?

I ask because mine is 363 but now seeing others with more recent build dates reporting 364. Might seem insignificant to most but to me a clear indication that the pack is a constantly evolving product.

Highest AH reading was 79.88. GID's was 363. GID's appears to be limited internally by software. Members have reported AH readings as high as 82 AH which should yield a GID's value around 374 but we don't see that. The best value I can come up with for a GID is 79W/GID based on a nominal 360vdc multiplied by the AH reading and divided by the number of GID's. YMMV.



I am using 77.5 watts/GID and my stats are 363/82.34

The 82.34 is a number I have seen on other LEAFs but most of them were 2017's or very late 2016's like mine (mine is an S30 so not possible to be anything but)

as far as what you see on LEAF Spy, you don't see the top un charged part of the pack. SOC at full charge is generally 97 something %. So your numbers are basically correct. 374 or 375 is the GID count at 100%
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:43 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:

so one of the first 30 kwh packs. This could be significant. Nissan has always continuously tweaked their batteries to eek out a better product.

what was your highest ahr/ GID reading?

I ask because mine is 363 but now seeing others with more recent build dates reporting 364. Might seem insignificant to most but to me a clear indication that the pack is a constantly evolving product.

Highest AH reading was 79.88. GID's was 363. GID's appears to be limited internally by software. Members have reported AH readings as high as 82 AH which should yield a GID's value around 374 but we don't see that. The best value I can come up with for a GID is 79W/GID based on a nominal 360vdc multiplied by the AH reading and divided by the number of GID's. YMMV.



I am using 77.5 watts/GID and my stats are 363/82.34

The 82.34 is a number I have seen on other LEAFs but most of them were 2017's or very late 2016's like mine (mine is an S30 so not possible to be anything but)

as far as what you see on LEAF Spy, you don't see the top un charged part of the pack. SOC at full charge is generally 97 something %. So your numbers are basically correct. 374 or 375 is the GID count at 100%

You misunderstand me. If the GID's value was unrestrained then a battery that reported 82 AH would report 374 GID's at full charge instead of 363 GID's. As long as the battery reports more than about 79.5 AH, the GID's value remains at 363.

NIssan only charges the cells to 4.11 vdc instead of the full rated voltage of 4.2 vdc This means that the battery is only ever charged to 92% of actual capacity. Nissan also limits the cutoff voltage to about 3.3 vdc per cell instead of the rated 2.8 vdc (although the difference only amounts to a couple of percent of capacity). Nissan does this to prolong the battery life. Fully charging to 4.2 vdc and and allowing discharging to 2.8 vdc would shorten the battery life significantly so I understand Nissan's logic here. SOC is the percentage of charge compared to the current capacity of the battery. I have never seen it higher than 97 or 98% even though it ought to hit 100% for a fully charged battery.

If I'm right in my theory, after a full charge you ought to be able to drive several miles before your GID's value starts to drop. When my leaf was new I could drive 2 miles before the percentage gauge would drop from 100% to 99%. I never thought to check it with LeafSpy to see if the GID's value was changing. If you have a chance, could you try that? It would be interesting to know one way or the other.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:25 am

Just providing another data point for S-30's:

GVWR: 4431
MFG Date: 9/16
acquired: 11/16
current odo: 7101 miles

Batt Stats:
    SOC = 82.3%
    AHr = 80.84
    SOH = 100%
    Hx = 96.59%
    385.31V
    -0.24A
    1 QCs & 293 L1/L2s # that one QC is probably from the dealer, since I never did.

Edit: one more bit of info:
GID's: 313 85.8%
24.3 KWh remaining.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30 (7300 miles & 363 GIDs @ 1 May 2017)! ... still getting a model3 though. :D

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11804
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 am

johnlocke wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Highest AH reading was 79.88. GID's was 363. GID's appears to be limited internally by software. Members have reported AH readings as high as 82 AH which should yield a GID's value around 374 but we don't see that. The best value I can come up with for a GID is 79W/GID based on a nominal 360vdc multiplied by the AH reading and divided by the number of GID's. YMMV.



I am using 77.5 watts/GID and my stats are 363/82.34

The 82.34 is a number I have seen on other LEAFs but most of them were 2017's or very late 2016's like mine (mine is an S30 so not possible to be anything but)

as far as what you see on LEAF Spy, you don't see the top un charged part of the pack. SOC at full charge is generally 97 something %. So your numbers are basically correct. 374 or 375 is the GID count at 100%

You misunderstand me. If the GID's value was unrestrained then a battery that reported 82 AH would report 374 GID's at full charge instead of 363 GID's. As long as the battery reports more than about 79.5 AH, the GID's value remains at 363.

NIssan only charges the cells to 4.11 vdc instead of the full rated voltage of 4.2 vdc This means that the battery is only ever charged to 92% of actual capacity. Nissan also limits the cutoff voltage to about 3.3 vdc per cell instead of the rated 2.8 vdc (although the difference only amounts to a couple of percent of capacity). Nissan does this to prolong the battery life. Fully charging to 4.2 vdc and and allowing discharging to 2.8 vdc would shorten the battery life significantly so I understand Nissan's logic here. SOC is the percentage of charge compared to the current capacity of the battery. I have never seen it higher than 97 or 98% even though it ought to hit 100% for a fully charged battery.

If I'm right in my theory, after a full charge you ought to be able to drive several miles before your GID's value starts to drop. When my leaf was new I could drive 2 miles before the percentage gauge would drop from 100% to 99%. I never thought to check it with LeafSpy to see if the GID's value was changing. If you have a chance, could you try that? It would be interesting to know one way or the other.



wouldn't it be easier just to say you are only seeing usable GIDs?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:36 pm

Another month gone by and i've lost a couple more GID's. As of Apr 30 I'm at 304 GID's at full charge. AH=66.45, SOH =83% Hx=76.36%. 26490 miles, 42 QC and 491 L2 charges. The battery is about 18 months old with 16.5 months of daily use. I figure to lose the first bar this summer if the reported 80% SOH number is correct. At this point nobody knows what the SOH will be for the second or third bars. If they turn out to be 10 percentage points less for each one, it's possible that you might need to lose half of the rated capacity before dropping the fourth bar. A 15KWH car would be marginal to useless for me. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

jbuntz
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:41 am
Delivery Date: 17 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 303765
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat May 13, 2017 3:21 pm

As of 5/13/2017 mine is at 69.27 AHr 87% SOH 5683 ODO. It went down a full AHr in 6 days :( Seems like I am not that far behind johnlocke
Mfg 11/15 Del 12/16 New Braunfels, TX 2016 SL 30kWh, 5175 miles. 324 GIDs, Ahr 70.75, SOH 89%, Hx; 85.31% kwh 25.1 @ 77.5/GID

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sat May 13, 2017 11:11 pm

jbuntz wrote:As of 5/13/2017 mine is at 69.27 AHr 87% SOH 5683 ODO. It went down a full AHr in 6 days :( Seems like I am not that far behind johnlocke


Are you missing a digit on your ODO? 5683 miles and already down to 87%?!?!
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30 (7300 miles & 363 GIDs @ 1 May 2017)! ... still getting a model3 though. :D

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11804
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun May 14, 2017 6:47 am

I just did a 6 month report on mine. Still the same but we had a few days of warmer weather so very interested to see what happens as Summer
Approaches

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/05/6-months.html

Sometimes, life reminds you that you have something to do. I had not planned on commemorating my 6 month anniversary of the day I took my 2016 S30 home but I just happen to be sitting at the light glanced down and saw this and it hit me like lightning.

If you recall, I leased my LEAF on Veteran's Day 2016 which is.... 11/11/16! This pretty much verifies that if the odometer read in tenths, the reading would have been 11111.6 miles! And the first 6 months have told me a few things (besides wishing I had gotten more than 15,000 miles a year...) and that is 30 kwh is a HUGE leap forward!

But first off; the basics. My LEAF has had 96 QCs, 132 L2's, and has not lost a single digit on LEAF Spy readings. The day I picked up the car, the numbers were good but keep in mind; the little time on the lot (likely a week or two at the most) would lower the numbers a bit.



After a day or two, my numbers stabilized; ahr 82.34, kwh available (GIDs= 77.5 wh) 28.1, GIDs 363, SOH 100, Hx 101-105.

Now we all know that driving it frequently helps boost the numbers and I guess you can say I qualify for that. Recall, I did an experiment where I drove the LEAF less than 30 miles a day for 10 days (most were under 15 miles a day) while doing one full charge, zero QCs. Did all this a few weeks after I received the LEAF and did see the numbers go down with Hx in the low 97's and ahr down to 81.28. So in reality, I am well over 2,000 miles a month.

As you can see from the first picture; battery pack toasting is no stranger to this car! I maybe paying for it later, but indications point to the pack cooling slightly better and one Portlandier mentioned that there is now an air tunnel from the front grill that passes thru the battery compartment. Aaron McAfee also mentioned the 30 kwh pack is constructed ever so slightly different in that there is air space between modules as if they used 2 washers instead of one. So nothing Earth shattering but maybe we don't need it to be.

I will say on "light" days when only 1-2 sessions on a 40 KW charger is involved, I am seeing pack temps nearly normalized over night. This was a change from my 24 kwh LEAFs where it would take well over 24 hours. What has also been noticeable is frequently a single DCFC on a 40 KW station (Yes, EVGO, I am talking about you) is about half the time, I never hit 6 TBs. That is VERY different from the 24 kwh packs!

But hit an AV station (50 KW) and the scenario changes dramatically. Just as the 6 kwh bump "seems" insignificant, a charger that is 10 KW faster doesn't seem like it would matter that much at all, right? Well the dash shot was about 20 mins after a stop at the Centralia AV station. AV sessions its easy to see 7, 8 or 9 TBs! (haven't seen 10 yet even on 5 charge days!) I have seen 9 TBs with just 2 charging sessions a half dozen times as long as the 2nd session is an AV. And I am not really charging to that high an SOC (sort of...) In fact, I frequently shut AV down when charging rate drops below 25-30 KW. In the below case, I had to upload the day's work assignments which meant I could do it when I got home or do it while charging. Guess which I chose? As you can see below, it was 8 PM and my patience ended at 40 KW (along with the uploads) . Can't even begin to tell you how much this matter!




Let me explain further. On my 24 kwh LEAFs, I would charge at full speed less than 10 mins. Then the charge rate would start to drop. So my 30 min charge session on the very same AV stations, would get me 50 to 65 miles of range depending on my starting SOC. This made a trip of 200 miles very inconvenient. I was now hamstrung by charger placement. I would frequently have to stop to charge 10-15 minutes simply because the next option was too far away with the problem being that as the SOC got higher, the rate of charge was too slow. We all have heard that its faster to charge on L2 than to stay on DCFC after 80% SOC which is a myth but like all myths, there is a bit of truth and the reality is you might still get a faster charge on DCFC but it will not be a runaway race over L2 after you hit about 85% SOC!

So we add a teeny bump of 6 kwh and BOOM! Now, I am getting 80-90 miles of range in 15-20 minutes. Check out my 300 mile roadtrip where I spent just over an hour charging. The same trip on 24 kwh would have had me charging nearly 3 hours! But that is only part of the story. Each stop requires time off the route besides plug time. Sometimes its a few minutes, sometimes not. On my road trip, I stopped a few times for personal need. The car could have gone on so I could have reduced my plug time even further. Also the trip was done during Winter during typically Northwest rainy wintery weather. IOW; a real test of usability. I did a similar trip on 24 kwh a few years back but during Summer or the best driving time and time spent charging was MUCH longer despite the higher efficiency numbers.

This brings me to the 2018 LEAF announcement in September. There is now growing evidence that 40ish Kwh will be the top option with 60 kwh coming a year or two later. I predicted the 60 kwh would be debuted by Nissan on another model (NV 200 or SUV?) so maybe a plausible explanation and this has not gone over well with the EV community who feels Nissan needs to meet the challenge of the Bolt (60 kwh) and the T 3 (55ish Kwh) but I have to say that with the right price point, I can honestly say that it very well could be the LEAF I would buy.

Soooo, "again" I guess I am forced to say, its too early to make any long term predictions on battery improvement and what not since "again" there is nothing to report. By all indications, the pack still works like new. Maybe I will have something to say at the end of the upcoming long hot Summer (its 42º right now...) or maybe at 22,222 miles (a few months from now. :) )


**for pictures you have to go to the link**
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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