Valdemar
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:53 pm

At least there's that 4 bar rule now, we didn't have that back in 2011.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

rcm4453
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:17 pm

armelwani wrote:Got my car back. No surprises here, they say the battery is JUST FINE!!! Completely within spec, they say. They won't replace it until 4 bars are lost or it throws a code. Just... incredible. I am absolutely dumbfounded. I will be continuing to document my battery readings here for everyone to follow the degradation, and I will be calling the EV hotline DAILY until they're so sick of me that they replace my battery.



Well that sucks! Guess all of us are stuck with our bad batteries until the 4th bar drops. The problem is that most likely won't happen for me as I have a little less then 2 years left on my lease. So I paid a little more to lease a Leaf with a 30kwh battery but I will be stuck getting the range of a 24kwh battery for the remainder of my lease :evil:

johnlocke
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:28 pm

Gee, I'm starting to feel not so bad anymore. I'm just shy of 25K miles and am sitting at 68AH at full charge (around 310 GIDs). I expect to drop the first bar this summer and maybe the second as well. The question now will be the intervals between the loss of the next three bars. I still expect a class action suit to occur in two to three years. My suspicion is that the battery degradation is age related not milage driven and it will affect most if not all the 2016 and 2017 models. I suspect that hot temps will exacerbate the problem but cool climates will still see moderate losses. If that's true, Nissan will have a public relation nightmare on it's hands. It won't matter if they get it right for the 2018's because no one is going to buy a brand with known battery issues. If Tesla even comes close to their release date, Nissan will be toast. They may be able to sell Leafs in Europe but the US will be out of reach.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

rcm4453
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:22 pm

I wonder why this would even happen after they seemed to have gotten the chemistry right starting with post April 2013 builds?!?

One would think the 30kwh batteries would pick up where the 24kwh lizard packs left off, not go back to the crappy 2011/2012 chemistry!

I don't think 2017s were affected as much, seems to be batteries built end of 2015 that are degrading faster then normal.

johnlocke
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:56 am

rcm4453 wrote:I wonder why this would even happen after they seemed to have gotten the chemistry right starting with post April 2013 builds?!?

One would think the 30kwh batteries would pick up where the 24kwh lizard packs left off, not go back to the crappy 2011/2012 chemistry!

I don't think 2017s were affected as much, seems to be batteries built end of 2015 that are degrading faster then normal.

I think that there's a buffer hidden in the software for the BMS that limits the GIDs value to a max of 363. Therefore GIDs don't start to drop until the battery drops below 78AH. That gives Nissan about 6-8 months before there's any indication of loss of capacity unless you check the AH and SOH values. If you have a late build 2016 or a 2017 with an 80+AH battery, you might not see anything wrong for up to a year. Nissan obviously knew there was a problem because they have switched to LG Cells for the 2018's. They spent a lot of money to build a new battery plant in Smyrna TN which they have effectively abandoned if they are buying LG cells now. You don't do something like that unless there's a big problem that you can't fix.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11590
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:18 am

armelwani wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
sounds like you are doing everything right. what is your average daily mileage? Sometimes if its too low that will depress stats but not to the point of losing bars. Right after I got mine, I went 2 weeks with very little driving with half the days at under 10 miles, charging it just a few hours every few days or so and it dropped to 98% SOH and 81.17 ahr. Due primarily to my wanting to see where the numbers would go and also a slow time at work

But when things picked up, this included several fast charges (about half the days it was 2 charges a day) and stats went back to new 100% SOH, 82.34 ahr.

I used to live in Marina so pretty familiar with the climate you have and I have to think most of the damage was done before you got the car. Another reason why I won't get a LEAF without plugging in LEAF Spy first and always select a car no more than 2 months off the factory floor. On my 2016 S 30, I got it on Veteran's Day. For the uninformed, my version started on the factory floor in Oct.


My commute alone is 20 miles round trip, but I work in IT and travel to client sites pretty regularly. It's not unusual for me to have a 100 mile day and do a couple charges in the same day. I seldom have a less than 30 mile day, so usually charging every other day from about 30% up to full.

I always list as being in Monterey because it's easier for people to identify where that is, mostly because of the Aquarium, but I actually live in Marina. Where/when did you live when you were here? For a little added perspective of my driving habits, my HQ is in Ryan Ranch and most of my clients are in Salinas, so I'm back and forth on HWY 68 very regularly.


oh crap, this was in the mid 80's. I lived in little subdivision that only covered maybe 6 or 7 blocks it seems? and don't remember the name of the place but one of the streets was Okinawa St and since I was born there, I do remember that part!

But your driving pattern sounds a lot like mine. I am an auditor so 100% of my work is a client locations and they can be far or near. Add to that I am healthcare certified which means I regularly get assigned other jobs outside my district due to the specific qualifications the job requires. I just blogged a trip made the Monday before last. One thing I noticed is that the car charges a LOT faster than the 24 kwh pack at much higher SOCs which only means I am really seeing the "80% SOC in 30 mins" for the first time in 6+ years.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/03 ... urney.html

Now wondering if my battery stats are going to fall off a cliff this Summer? I doubt it but I first thing I would do is look at your car's time on the lot. Just because they sell em doesn't mean they know how to treat em...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 13001 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1 QCs 112
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GRA
Posts: 6769
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:19 pm

armelwani also mentioned that he was regularly traveling to Salinas, and it's a lot warmer along the 101 corridor than it gets along the coast, even though it's only about 15 miles inland. When I was scuba diving regularly in Monterey/Carmel bays, there was a trip I made one December(?) where there was snow on the sand dunes in Marina/Sand City. I have a hard time imagining such a thing happening in Salinas. Still, if they've only had the car 6 months, sustained high temps shouldn't have been an issue, although there can certainly be a hot spell in September or as late as mid-October. Summer in Salinas, though . . . at least he doesn't have to leave the car in King City!
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

johnlocke
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:28 pm

Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11590
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:26 am

johnlocke wrote:Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.


build date and estimated time on lot?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 13001 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1 QCs 112
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

johnlocke
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:27 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
johnlocke wrote:Just passed 25,000 miles, after 15 1/2 months, I'm at 306 GID's fully charged, 67.03AH, SOH = 84%, Hx = 77.77%. 39 QC and 461 L2 charges, Cell balance is 9mv at full charge. It's looking like I'm still losing 4-5 GIDs/mo even during the winter. I'm expecting the summer to be worse and that I'll be down to 260-270 GIDs by August. That's essentially a 24KWH battery after 20 months. I'm Sure that Nissan will say that's within spec. I expect to have to replace the battery in the next 12-15 months at about the 45,000 mi mark.


build date and estimated time on lot?

Build date is 10/15. Delivery Date was 12/15/15. Lot time was probably less than 2 weeks. I wasn't planning on buying that day since I was looking for an SV with cloth seats but ended up with a loaded SL anyway.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

Return to “LEAF CANBus”