TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:40 pm

blimpy wrote:...

My leaf spy pro seems to read 5% below the charge percentage on the dash.. which I assume corresponds to the
pack charging to 95% and stopping when the dash says 100 %.

LEAF Spy Pro is theoretical maximum SOC.
LEAF charging stops before theoretical maximum.

Dash adjusts to make max charge 100%.
I think dash 0% is either turtle or possibly dead in the water pack auto disconnect.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6851
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:27 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:used 50 KW AV DCFC yesterday for the first time (keeping in mind NRG is a 40 KW charger for the most part) and some "interesting" numbers.
...
GID increased from 62 to 332 or 270 which is 77 wh/GID if using the 20.9 figure.

now thinking I have a bad LEAF Spy setting?

Problem is that the kWh displays in Leaf Spy I believe are all based upon the Wh per gid setting. As such, I pay no attention to any kWh readings in Leaf Spy. AFAIK, Nissan still has never publicly documented nor commented on any values retrieved on the CAN bus, let alone warranting or guaranteeing anything about the values or their accuracy/lack of (e.g. # of Wh per gids).
TimLee wrote:
blimpy wrote:...

My leaf spy pro seems to read 5% below the charge percentage on the dash.. which I assume corresponds to the
pack charging to 95% and stopping when the dash says 100 %.

LEAF Spy Pro is theoretical maximum SOC.
LEAF charging stops before theoretical maximum.

Dash adjusts to make max charge 100%.
I think dash 0% is either turtle or possibly dead in the water pack auto disconnect.

Unless Leaf Spy retrieves and displays the value that the dash display uses, I would never expect them to match. '11 and '12 Leafs never even had a % SoC display. Whatever Leaf Spy uses was developed independently of the dash % SoC display, which is a black box to us.

As for the bolded part, before I had Leaf Spy, on my former Leaf, I had its % SoC display drop somewhere from 5% to 7% to - - - % :o while near home. I was afraid I'd fall short of reaching home and originally expected a count down to 1 or 2% w/turtle appearing around there.

I've not taken my current Leaf that low and now I do have Leaf Spy
Last edited by cwerdna on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:16 pm

Reddy wrote:Heating of the battery might give a slightly higher "capacity ", just a thought.


Kelly Carmichael had an interesting theory where the kwh remaining was calculated using the lowest cell's voltage which makes sense since as soon as they hit the bottom threshold, the car stops no matter how much is left in the rest of the pack. the charge put in helped to balance the pack making the cells more even which in theory would bring more cells into the mix.

sound plausible?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6186
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:10 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Finished the charge and received 20.05 kwh per AV display

Nice - 40 kW average charge rate for 30 minutes? If you start with a full charge that means an easy 170 miles or so with a 30 min QC stop.

Sounds like the 30 kWh LEAF can easily handle more current - bring on 200A CHAdeMO!

In contrast, I squeezed out 54 miles to VLBW doing 55-60 mph on the freeway. A 30min QC might get me another 35 miles. Barely half the range of a new LEAF.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

johnlocke
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:19 pm

Dash % of charge indicator only reads down to 5%. Below 5% it shows ---. That's around 16-18 GIDs depending on your max charge value. VLB warning is at 7% and LB warning is 14% (actually 50 GIDs, appears to be hard coded in BMS). To get those last couple miles out safely, you need Leaf Spy. Since Turtle mode is controlled by the lowest cell value, you probably won't get all those last few GIDs out. I've driven my car down to turtle and the numbers get erratic at the bottom. Also battery voltage drops dramatically below VLB which isn't good for the battery.

At Turtle, the pack balance was terrible (65 mv) which also prevented me from squeezing the last few drops out.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

sendler2112
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:38 pm

Does Leafspy read out instances of VLBW and turtle mode over the life of the car like it does Quick Charges?

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:53 pm

drees wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Finished the charge and received 20.05 kwh per AV display

Nice - 40 kW average charge rate for 30 minutes? If you start with a full charge that means an easy 170 miles or so with a 30 min QC stop.

Sounds like the 30 kWh LEAF can easily handle more current - bring on 200A CHAdeMO!

In contrast, I squeezed out 54 miles to VLBW doing 55-60 mph on the freeway. A 30min QC might get me another 35 miles. Barely half the range of a new LEAF.


it is VERY nice. Full speed charging between 47.5 to 48.8 KW charging up to around 75% but still running 32 KW at 83% and 20 KW at 91% when the 29 minute charge completed.

In my 2013, I was charging under 45 KW at 50% SOC....
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:54 pm

sendler2112 wrote:Does Leafspy read out instances of VLBW and turtle mode over the life of the car like it does Quick Charges?


no
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:55 pm

johnlocke wrote:Dash % of charge indicator only reads down to 5%. Below 5% it shows ---. That's around 16-18 GIDs depending on your max charge value. VLB warning is at 7% and LB warning is 14% (actually 50 GIDs, appears to be hard coded in BMS). To get those last couple miles out safely, you need Leaf Spy. Since Turtle mode is controlled by the lowest cell value, you probably won't get all those last few GIDs out. I've driven my car down to turtle and the numbers get erratic at the bottom. Also battery voltage drops dramatically below VLB which isn't good for the battery.

At Turtle, the pack balance was terrible (65 mv) which also prevented me from squeezing the last few drops out.


hit Turtle twice. once at 4 GIDs the other at 6 GIDs same car
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reddy
Posts: 1379
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:10 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Reddy wrote:Heating of the battery might give a slightly higher "capacity ", just a thought.


Kelly Carmichael had an interesting theory where the kwh remaining was calculated using the lowest cell's voltage which makes sense since as soon as they hit the bottom threshold, the car stops no matter how much is left in the rest of the pack. the charge put in helped to balance the pack making the cells more even which in theory would bring more cells into the mix.

sound plausible?
Yes
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 47.45 AHr; 39,500 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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