QueenBee
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Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:42 pm

essaunders wrote:I have a quote (got it yesterday, actually) for a 4kw install for (after taxes credits and state rebates) $8800.


FYI: It's better to quote the price before tax credits, state rebates, utility rebates, because it's assumed that everyone in your area would be eligible for those but the rest of us that aren't in your area that price doesn't mean anything to. The OP did a good job is starting with the total cost and then subtracting the rebates they are eligible for.

essaunders
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:20 am
Delivery Date: 20 Jan 2012
Location: southern NH

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:15 pm

QueenBee wrote:
essaunders wrote:I have a quote (got it yesterday, actually) for a 4kw install for (after taxes credits and state rebates) $8800.


FYI: It's better to quote the price before tax credits, state rebates, utility rebates, because it's assumed that everyone in your area would be eligible for those but the rest of us that aren't in your area that price doesn't mean anything to. The OP did a good job is starting with the total cost and then subtracting the rebates they are eligible for.


Fair enough. Before credits and rebates it is about double my stated figure. I'm still weighing this against some landscaping and hardscape projects.

SKY888
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:26 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2013
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:25 pm

QueenBee wrote:
SKY888 wrote:
QueenBee wrote:
I would expect there to be a much bigger price difference between a 5kw system and a 1kw system.

As far as appearance how do you think the extra spacing between panels will impact appearance?


Have you had a solar survey and/or are you pretty comfortable with the expected output from the system? If so what's your ROI to break even?




hello, thanks for the reply and feedback! I appreciate it.

when you said that you expect that there would be a much bigger price difference between a 5kw and a 1kw system, what do you mean by that?

my vendor told me that its basically 1kw system = $4400. So if I chose 4 or 5kw system, it doesnt really matter. Everything will be multiplied by $4400.

the spacing and appearance will look good. So no worries there.

with a 5k system which will probably produce around 5500watts here in Rhode Island. I'm good with that.
so, 5500 x .15 cents = 825

with $11,550 (after RI grant and Fed credits) divided by $825 = 14 years ROI


I'm obviously not in the business of selling solar installs but as the system got larger I would expect the price to come down per watt because there are some materials which you need the same or a similiar amount of if its a 5kw or a 1kw system. And with those materials there are parts of the labor that are the same. THen you consider the cost to quote the bid, deal with you, deal with the permitting agencies, etc. Those are are all very similar on a 1kw or a 5kw job. My point just being that at the pricing your are seeing I would expect their profit margin to be fairly substantial higher on your 5kw quote vs 1kw.

5500 seems like a realistic production number, people around here like to use 1 watt of DC system to 1KWH annually but IMO that is conservative.


I applaud you for continuing with this project considering that kind of ROI. I can guarantee you that you will not regret it (Unless you move ;). I'm looking at ROIs of about half that but that's doing it myself, buying the materials through a distributor, and being as cost effective as I can be. 14 years also doesn't factor in the cost of electricity going up so the reality is it'll end up being much lower. The other question that is hard to answer is how much is the satisfaction of producing your own electricity worth? Prior to owning a system I wouldn't have considered that but had my ROI been 14 years having felt what I feel now I would have still done it.



that's a good point about 5kw vs 1kw pricing. With a 5kw system, the quote should go lower in terms of 1kw= $4300. I'll be asking the vendor of his price will be lower .....

14yrs of ROI is long, I must admit, which is the depressing part. But unlike cars, tvs, etc....that we buy....those depreciate in value and don't give any ROI even in 50 yrs.

The GE Geospring (heat pump water heater) that I recently bought for $999.............has a $1000 rebate.........which is awesome! Instant ROI the moment I use it....lol.

Currently planning to add R23 class 1 blown cellulose on top of my R-38 fiber glass insulation on my 998 sq foot Attic, and Home Air Leak Sealing.....which totals only $752 (due to National Grid incentives) should provide quick ROI.
Adding the R values should be around R61. But realistically, it should be around in the R50 range...i guess.

So adding Solar Panels is still in the plans. Still researching a bit to learn more stuff about it. HOpefully, I can get better pricing by summer....

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
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Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:40 am

SKY888 wrote:
The GE Geospring (heat pump water heater) that I recently bought for $999.............has a $1000 rebate.........which is awesome! Instant ROI the moment I use it....lol.

Currently planning to add R23 class 1 blown cellulose on top of my R-38 fiber glass insulation on my 998 sq foot Attic, and Home Air Leak Sealing.....which totals only $752 (due to National Grid incentives) should provide quick ROI.
Adding the R values should be around R61. But realistically, it should be around in the R50 range...i guess.

So adding Solar Panels is still in the plans. Still researching a bit to learn more stuff about it. HOpefully, I can get better pricing by summer....


That's the kind of ROI that makes these kind of things a no brainer.

The price per watt for the materials can be down to under $2.00 (wholesaleish cost) so I suspect that if you can keep searching for solar installers in the area you'll be able to find someone who is reputable BUT also has low overhead so their markups are more inline with what you need.

Are you set on black panels/racking? I'm not sure what the total cost increase is from that but if it was just 15 cents a watt that is nearly a year of additional before break even.

Might also ponder the products they are using. I'm not sure what the price difference between unirack and others are but I've heard unirack is more expensive and then the same goes for the panels. Comparing pricing at CivicSolar which is retailish if you were getting this panel: http://www.civicsolar.com/product/benq- ... olar-panel that is $1.15 a watt
vs this black one for $1.03 http://www.civicsolar.com/product/canad ... olar-panel
or this non black one for $.96 http://www.civicsolar.com/product/canad ... olar-panel

I've been seeing panels that are down to .66 cents a watt, I have no idea what the repuatation of them in the industry is but they are from what appear to be large chinese manufacturers.

Let us know if we can help!

SKY888
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:26 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2013
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:03 pm

thanks Queenbee for all the info, I appreciate it!

I have another installer told me $4/watt


here's the products/brands he uses
Mage solar
solar bridge inverters
Haticon rack


the price is cheaper compared to the $4.30/watt that the other vendor.

But I doubt these products are more superior than the other vendor tho.

madbrain
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Location: San Jose, CA

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:58 am

SKY888 wrote:Hi Guys,

I talked to one installer here in RI, and gave me a quote of 1kw system for $4,300 installed.

I'm planning to get 4-5kw system on my house.


here are the products that he'll be using:

Modules- AU optronics aka BenQ 260 watt efficiency 16.1%. All black module
with high output under low light conditions
Inverters- Enphase M215 CEC weighted efficiency 96+%
Module PTC rating- 233.4 watts
Module warranty- 10 year workmanship, 10 year 90% output 25 year 80% output
Power tolerance- (-)0-+3%
Mounting- Quick mount integrated flashing, low profile mounts (about 4" off
roof for air circulation), Uni-Rac black anodized rail system with one inch
equal spacing between all modules for air circulation and best snow
remediation. Modules are 1.5" thick



so for a 5k system, it will be around $21,500

$21,500 - $5,375 (25% RI grant) = $16,125

$16,125 - $4,837.50 (30% fed tax credit) = $11,287.50 total in the end


What do you guys think of $4,300 installed for a 1k system?

what about the products that he'll be using?


thanks!


The panels are fine, as are the Enphase M215 .
The $21500 price for the 5kw system seems high.

For reference, I just got a 2.8kw system installed in Northern California for $8500 before any incentives, 3 months ago.
That was using 12 Talesun 240W panels and 12 Enphase M190 inverters.
The CSI rebate I expect to receive will be small - only about $500. And the 30% federal tax credit on my 2012 taxes the total price less CSI rebate will be $2400.
So, after the incentives, the net installed system cost will be $5600. Ie. About $2/watt net installed.
A 5k system with the same materials would have had an even lower cost per watt.

Your RI state incentive is different and better than the CSI, but it sounds like your installer wants to take most of it for himself.

SKY888
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:26 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2013
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:11 am

madbrain wrote:
SKY888 wrote:Hi Guys,

I talked to one installer here in RI, and gave me a quote of 1kw system for $4,300 installed.

I'm planning to get 4-5kw system on my house.


here are the products that he'll be using:

Modules- AU optronics aka BenQ 260 watt efficiency 16.1%. All black module
with high output under low light conditions
Inverters- Enphase M215 CEC weighted efficiency 96+%
Module PTC rating- 233.4 watts
Module warranty- 10 year workmanship, 10 year 90% output 25 year 80% output
Power tolerance- (-)0-+3%
Mounting- Quick mount integrated flashing, low profile mounts (about 4" off
roof for air circulation), Uni-Rac black anodized rail system with one inch
equal spacing between all modules for air circulation and best snow
remediation. Modules are 1.5" thick



so for a 5k system, it will be around $21,500

$21,500 - $5,375 (25% RI grant) = $16,125

$16,125 - $4,837.50 (30% fed tax credit) = $11,287.50 total in the end


What do you guys think of $4,300 installed for a 1k system?

what about the products that he'll be using?


thanks!


The panels are fine, as are the Enphase M215 .
The $21500 price for the 5kw system seems high.

For reference, I just got a 2.8kw system installed in Northern California for $8500 before any incentives, 3 months ago.
That was using 12 Talesun 240W panels and 12 Enphase M190 inverters.
The CSI rebate I expect to receive will be small - only about $500. And the 30% federal tax credit on my 2012 taxes the total price less CSI rebate will be $2400.
So, after the incentives, the net installed system cost will be $5600. Ie. About $2/watt net installed.
A 5k system with the same materials would have had an even lower cost per watt.

Your RI state incentive is different and better than the CSI, but it sounds like your installer wants to take most of it for himself.



down to $2, huh?


so your ROI is around 13-14 yrs?

SKY888
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:26 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jul 2013
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:24 am

24 Mage Panels of 240watts
24 Solar Bridge Pantheon II microinverters (built-into the panel)

5.760 kw system

$23,000 installed (1kw = $4000)

Mage solar panels w/ Solar Bridge microinverters

http://www.magesolar.com/nc/us/newsmess ... ows-1.html

$23,000
- $5,750 (25% RI grant)
________
$17,250
- $5,175 (30% fed credit)
________
$12,075 total



basically around $2.09/watt

5.760kw x 15 cents kwh (Rhode Island) = $864 savings a year

$12,075/$864 = 14 years ROI


What do you guys think about these products?

how about the price?


thanks much!

Burr
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:35 am
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2013
Leaf Number: 400968

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:04 am

I agree 100%. I wish I would have had your advice 7 years ago. I believe my pay-off date was shortened by 50%, when the price of gasoline was factored in. If you can, build your own solar array the satisfaction is much greater. The price of solar panels has fallen by at least 75% in the last seven years. Micro-inverters and their cabling has made the the installation a "plug-play" operation.............Good Luck

madbrain
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 023874
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: 1kw system = $4,300 installed

Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:36 am

SKY888 wrote:down to $2, huh?


so your ROI is around 13-14 yrs?


No, my payback period is about 5 years or less due to the electricity pricing in California.

Right now my PG&E baseline is only 12 kWh per day. Anything over 200% of the baseline, ie. over 24 kWh would get charged at 35 cents/kWh.
That's for a non time of use plan. See http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/ .

Since I am on a TOU plan, rates are up to 50 cents/kWh in the top tier - which is a good thing since that's what the utility pays me when the sun shines.
I have enough solar to offset all tiers except baseline.

At this point there is no longer any California state incentive for purchasing solar PV . Ie. there is no more carrots.
There is just a stick - the horrendous utility prices. Either one gives solar PV a high ROI.
Other states tend to prefer the carrot approach, California was using both carrots and sticks. Now the carrots are gone.

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