New roof before adding Solar

We definitely want to get a solar system set up as soon as possible, but we need to get a new roof in place first. Do I treat it as 2 separate projects? Or is there anything I can do to save money on both by bundling it together?

I read about solar shingles and they don't seem to be very good, so I don't think I will go that route. But I am curious if anyone is aware of any advantages to doing both at the same time or if there is any other options I should consider.

I was even contemplating putting solar panels in my backyard and not coupling the roof expense with adding solar, but it seems as if ground mount panels require fairly beefy support and I don't know if will be possible without making some permanent changes to the backyard.

I would definitely talk to both contractors. Might be best to have the solar mounts installed before the roof goes on.

What roofing material are you planning? Mounts go onto composition roof quite easily; somewhat more work for lightweight concrete or clay tile. Definitely talk to your solar contractor.

If you're doing a composite roof you may want to look into DOW Powerhouse solar shingles. They are roofing tabs, fit among the composits, and look much better than panels.

The two projects should be planned together. No point installing an expensive roof, like tiles, and then paying extra to install solar panels over it. It's better and cheaper to go with a sturdy, low cost roofing material then cover it with the solar panels.

As someone who got a new roof after installing panels I can say you if you are using comp shingles you definitely want to plan them together but AFAIC they will be two different projects one after another.

The reason being if you use the standard comp flashing like this http://www.quickmountpv.com/products/composition-mount.html?cur=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; installing it is literally as easy as finding the trusses and verifying that the shingle line is fairly straight. Then you just insert the flashing under the shingles above it until the mount is basically touching the edge of the shingle above. Every once in a while you might run into a nail that is in the way but they are easy to take care of.

There would be at least two issues with having the mounts installed first. The first is that you'd need the solar contractor to come out in between when the roofers have removed the roofing and have not started replacing it. So scheduling would not be fun.

Then the second problem is if you went up and installed them all and then started roofing the odds that the placement of the mounts is exactly the same as where the edge of the top shingle is will not be very likely so the roofer will end up having to cut a lot of the shingles to get them to fit.

As to which method will be more waterproof? I think both methods will outlast the roof.

But as others have noted I think it entirely depends on what type of roof.

I am in the same boat and will likely use composite and solar and solar thermal over it. That said, certain certified shingles qualified (used to at least on the last house) for a 30% fed tax rebate on the material cost (lighter shades including gray). Well, much of it may end up covered but their you have it.

Will look into the DOW but last time I checked they were 2X the cost, and not easy to relocate should that need arise. That said, I agree, they do look nice...

I am also thinking of having a gazebo type structure that would be aimed directly south for the best insolation... Design in progress at the moment...

Here in Calif., we needed a new roof as well. The solar contractor Real Goods was very versed in this situation and had a roofing contractor they worked with. The price of roofing was added to overall price for solar installation. These were composite shingles. We were happy with the results.

Thanks for all the info!

We were going to go with Composite Shingles as well. I don't think I mind the look of the solar array. I just want something that is reliable and had a decent amount of adopters already. I think if I got the solar shingles now, I would be a bit more of an early adopter and I don't know if I want to do that.

Will look at getting quotes and also contacting Real Goods as well. I am in the Los Angeles area so if anyone else has recommendations for roofing + solar I'd love to talk to them.

My electric car is pushing me way into overpriced tiers for Southern California Edison. We have our AC set at 83 and we are still seeing bills that are several hundred dollars a month!

thait84 said:

My electric car is pushing me way into overpriced tiers for Southern California Edison. We have our AC set at 83 and we are still seeing bills that are several hundred dollars a month!

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If your windows are 20 years old or more, you might want to look into getting them replaced. It made a huge difference in comfort and utility bills for us - we replaced 25yr old non-coated dual-panes with current technology.

DeaneG said:

thait84 said:

My electric car is pushing me way into overpriced tiers for Southern California Edison. We have our AC set at 83 and we are still seeing bills that are several hundred dollars a month!

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If your windows are 20 years old or more, you might want to look into getting them replaced. It made a huge difference in comfort and utility bills for us - we replaced 25yr old non-coated dual-panes with current technology.

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Does it make a really big difference from single pane? Because windows would cost us around 11k. I am thinking that roof + solar + attic insulation might be more bang for the buck, but I am still weighing all options.

thait84 said:

DeaneG said:

If your windows are 20 years old or more, you might want to look into getting them replaced. It made a huge difference in comfort and utility bills for us - we replaced 25yr old non-coated dual-panes with current technology.

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Does it make a really big difference from single pane? Because windows would cost us around 11k. I am thinking that roof + solar + attic insulation might be more bang for the buck, but I am still weighing all options.

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Modern dual pane windows will make a very noticeable difference in energy loss (and quietness) over single panes, but attic insulation would be first to add if you don't have any now.

When we upgraded our old dual panes to modern dual panes, we noticed that the heater and A/C ran quite a bit less, temperature throughout the house became more even, and street noise became much less audible. After our experience I can't imagine staying with the single pane windows we had in another house 30 years ago.

Of course your $ savings depend on the existing insulation in the walls and attic. As you say, the windows would take years to pay off in cost savings, like PV solar.

thait84 said:

Does it make a really big difference from single pane? Because windows would cost us around 11k. I am thinking that roof + solar + attic insulation might be more bang for the buck, but I am still weighing all options.

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If you're not sure, window tinting is fairly cheap and easy enough to apply (and remove, for that matter). Treat all the windows that get a lot of sunlight and you should notice the difference almost immediately. You'll still have conductive losses through the single pane window and quite possibly air leakage, but reducing solar load can take a huge big chunk off your cooling costs.

I treated ONE window in my bedroom, which gets direct sunlight from ~3PM to sundown, and the difference is amazing. The film I got was like $40 and I still have enough to do another five or six windows, so it's less than $10 per window if you think about it that way. If it makes a huge difference then newer windows will be even better since they'll also reduce conductive and air leakage losses.
=Smidge=

Smidge204 said:

thait84 said:

Does it make a really big difference from single pane? Because windows would cost us around 11k. I am thinking that roof + solar + attic insulation might be more bang for the buck, but I am still weighing all options.

Click to expand...

If you're not sure, window tinting is fairly cheap and easy enough to apply (and remove, for that matter). Treat all the windows that get a lot of sunlight and you should notice the difference almost immediately. You'll still have conductive losses through the single pane window and quite possibly air leakage, but reducing solar load can take a huge big chunk off your cooling costs.

I treated ONE window in my bedroom, which gets direct sunlight from ~3PM to sundown, and the difference is amazing. The film I got was like $40 and I still have enough to do another five or six windows, so it's less than $10 per window if you think about it that way. If it makes a huge difference then newer windows will be even better since they'll also reduce conductive and air leakage losses.
=Smidge=

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Did you apply the tint yourself or did you have someone do it? I have heard that auto tinters do a good job. I was going to go on Angie's List to get some referrals. Does it make the window that much darker? Or is it more like once you have it on, you can't really tell the difference?

I was also thinking about adding solar screens for my rear (East) facing windows to see if that made a difference.

I applied it myself, but I'm one of "those" people

Wasn't hard - there's two big tricks: One, make sure the glass is absolutely immaculate. Two, use clean water in a spray bottle while peeling the backer off the film to knock down the static cling. (You need a bit of moisture anyway to apply it to the window)
=Smidge=

It is interesting to see windows discussed for sun/heat blocking purposes. When I built my house thirteen years ago, the builder put in all "low E" windows in the house I had designed to be "sun tempered" (a version of passive solar), despite my reservations about it. Then I couldn't understand why it was so cool in the house on bright sunny days in late September. Turns out the windows had an SHGC (Solar Heat Gain Coefficient) of .39 meaning that they blocked 61% of the sun's heat. I build a solar house and get sun blocking windows!

I then had to replace every window on the south side of my house with plain glass (double pane, of course). The plain glass windows had an SHGC of .69 to .70; it may not sound like much but it is a huge difference. I left the low E windows in on the east, west, and north, since those directions are net losers (lose more heat at night than they gain from the sun during the day).

My south windows only get sun in fall and winter because of the angle of the sun in the sky. That is a disadvantage in mid-spring since it is still quite cold most days. But it sure is nice to be "baking" in a sunny window when it is 10º to 30ºF outside in winter!

Anyway, it amuses me to think of windows used to block the sun rather than use them to heat the house as I do here in snow country. No AC required here: it usually gets down to the 50s at night in summer so I just open the windows to let the cool air in and then shut things up tight during the day.

dgpcolorado said:

Anyway, it amuses me to think of windows used to block the sun rather than use them to heat the house as I do here in snow country. No AC required here: it usually gets down to the 50s at night in summer so I just open the windows to let the cool air in and then shut things up tight during the day.

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It's a big problem in much of the U.S. Our federal government has a one-size-fits-all policy when it comes to subsidizing windows and it is all focused on climates where cooling dominates. As a result, U.S. manufacturers tend to only sell Low-E windows.

Germany is a smaller country where heating dominates and they have very advanced solutions for high-solar-gain windows.

It's too bad that our government does not appreciate how much energy is being wasted by pushing the wrong windows on about half of the country. It kinda reminds me of a certain car company that pushes EVs which are mainly suitable for the cooler climates on even the hottest areas of the country.

RegGuheert said:

It's too bad that our government does not appreciate how much energy is being wasted by pushing the wrong windows on about half of the country.

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maybe it would be wise for the government not to be "pushing" windows of any kind and let the consumers and manufacturers figure on the proper mix

apvbguy said:

maybe it would be wise for the government not to be "pushing" windows of any kind and let the consumers and manufacturers figure on the proper mix

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I'm with you on that point. I'm generally against the government deciding how to spend my money. I'd rather keep it and decide for myself.

RegGuheert said:

It's too bad that our government does not appreciate how much energy is being wasted by pushing the wrong windows on about half of the country.

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It's too bad that's not at all the case, since the criteria for what type of window will get you an incentive varies depending on your region:



But by all means, keep complaining rather than doing any research...
=Smidge=