SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

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ElectricMonkey

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
80
On the advice of a friend who also has solar and an EV, we switched to the TOU2 plan. We had a positive usage of 90kWh for the billing period that just ended, and yet we still had a negative bill. No more tiers! I was told, specifically, by SDG&E that on TOU2, you are credited at the rate of electricity when you generate, and billed at the rate of electricity when you use. It's that simple, and that does, in fact, appear to be the case. I've seen plenty of forum posts, across multiple forums, debating the topic, so I thought I'd chime in. We appear to have been credited at $0.49 per kWh during on peak (12-6pm) while we're generating power, and billed at $0.16 super off peak, and $.22 off peak, for the hours when we're using electricity. We can use more than we produce, and still have a negative bill. It's also worth mentioning that we have a Jacuzzi, and that the timer on the Jacuzzi sets itself based on when it is powered on, so we powered it on during the cheaper rate period, and programmed it's cycles accordingly.
 
Yeah, I need to do the same thing.

EV-TOU2 seems to be slightly better than going DR-SES since it covers weekends and holidays, despite DR-SES starting peak hours at 11am instead of 12pm.

And the EV-TOU2 super off peak rates are a decent amount cheaper, too.

How did you switch? Did you have an existing EV-TOU meter?
 
You can switch to an EV rate such as EV-TOU2 by going to the EV page on the SDG&E website: http://www.sdge.com/ev" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and then click on the "Change to EV rate" on the left side and fill out the form...

It is true that you are credited with the retail TOU price for energy generated during the day and then you will be billed at the TOU price for energy consumed in the various time periods. A true up occurs each year, so from month to month you can carry surpluses or deficits over.

At the end of the annual true up period, your account will be settled up. If you use more than you generate, an amount will be due. if you end up with excess generation, then you will be paid back at a wholesale rate. So it is to your advantage to not over generate too much.

Gas is usually billed separately, so excess generation cannot be applied to gas purchases.

I installed solar recently and am finding that the EV-TOU2 rate works very well for me. There is a triple-whammy (tm) financial multiplication effect of generating during the day on peak during the summer and charging cars at night during super off peak that is very nice....And while there is a financial benefit to the customer for doing that, there is also a benefit to the utility and other ratepayers because charging cars late at night avoids additional infrastructure investment (so everyone saves longterm)...
 
Thanks Randy!

Do you have to wait until your true-up period to switch, or can you switch at any time? If I switch now, does that mean I lose any credits I have built up over the sunny months?
 
Just checked for you, and a true up is not forced if you do a rate change in the middle of a cycle. The true up date stays the same.

Also clarified what happens at true-up time. During the year, a running total is shown on your statement that is a negative number (for retail pricing credits) or a positive number (for usage above and beyond generation). At the end of the year when your true up occurs, if you are an over generator, then the retail credit balance for the year is converted to the wholesale price. You can either get a check for that wholesale price at the end of the annual true up period or roll that wholesale price over as a credit to the next year (not the retail version of that credit you might have been seeing build up on your monthly statements).

I hope that helps clarify as I know it can get confusing....
 
TOU 2 means you have the car and the house on the same meter, while TOU means you have a separate meter for the car. Its ambiguous because the '2' might just as easily mean that you have 2 meters, rather than two things using a single meter (house and EV).

We have only one meter, and that's what makes it really good for us because all of our usage is now based on time of day, and, unless our dogs figure out how to turn on the AC when we're gone, there's really nothing running in our house during peak hours. We even have a delay feature on our washing machine so we can run it during super off peak.

Now, if I can just figure out how to run the car charger backwards and feed the grid during the day on the weekends, I'll be all set :twisted:
 
For customers with a solar PV system and an EV, it makes the most sense to have the whole house meter setup. If you did have two meters, then your solar output would probably be tied to your house meter and your car usage would then be separate and not offset by solar generation on the other meter. So you lose that benefit.

The EVTOU separate meter rate is best for people that have significant peak usage that they want to keep separate on the tiered DR rate and then get the TOU rate on the second meter to charge their car. That way, the car charging doesn't make them go into a higher tier if they just had one meter, and the house peak time usage is measured on the tiered rate and not charged at peak time. But this scenario doesn't happen very often...Most people with EVs are better off on EVTOU2 whole house metering...
 
The way TOU works out I find it amazing that there is so much resistance on plain net metering.
Huge benefit to supplying on-peak power and shifting usage to the early morning.
My bill reduction (SCE) is at least double what it would be with flat rate net metering.
 
Randy said:
Just checked for you, and a true up is not forced if you do a rate change in the middle of a cycle. The true up date stays the same.
Cool, thanks again!

Randy said:
Also clarified what happens at true-up time. During the year, a running total is shown on your statement that is a negative number (for retail pricing credits) or a positive number (for usage above and beyond generation). At the end of the year when your true up occurs, if you are an over generator, then the retail credit balance for the year is converted to the wholesale price. You can either get a check for that wholesale price at the end of the annual true up period or roll that wholesale price over as a credit to the next year (not the retail version of that credit you might have been seeing build up on your monthly statements).

I hope that helps clarify as I know it can get confusing....
Yeah, it is a bit confusing. But looking at my NEM Summary it makes sense. I currently have a NEM credit of about $30, so if I switch now I'll simply use up those credits in the winter months. And it's possible I'll build up more credits, but now they're likely to be at $0.49 / kWh instead of $0.16 / kWh.

Submitting the application now!

PS - do you know what happens to the current EV meter?

Edit: Called up and spoke with an EV specialist, the current EV meter will remain in place, it just won't be used any longer.
 
We always encourage people with the 2nd ev meter who are migrating to the whole house rate to leave it in place if possible and we will make it a load research meter. Nothing will ever get billed from it, but it will still gather valuable charging data. You also have the choice of removing it if you'd like...
 
Randy said:
We always encourage people with the 2nd ev meter who are migrating to the whole house rate to leave it in place if possible and we will make it a load research meter. Nothing will ever get billed from it, but it will still gather valuable charging data. You also have the choice of removing it if you'd like...
That's what I assumed, but the guy I spoke with seemed to imply that the data was not likely to be used unless there was a program specifically set up to do so - called it a "dead meter". Maybe there is and he just didn't know about it.
 
Randy said:
I'll try to make sure that message gets out to the call center...
Thanks. He said that there wasn't a way to get the meter data, either, which is too bad, but not a big deal for those of us who have Blink stations.
 
aries said:
I should clarify - there's no way for me to get the data from SDG&E. I'm sure that a 3rd party device should still be able to pull data from the "dead" meter as you mention.

What I'd like to do is to monitor each circuit on the house. But that's for another topic. :)
 
This sounds really good ... too good to be true... so good I have to wonder, what's the catch?

Is the switch from Net Metering to TOU2 a one-way street? It's great today buying and selling electricity at the same retail TOU rates. But what if 3 months or 3 years from now SDG&E levies an additional $50 a month connection fee, or drops the rate paid for generation to $0.02/kWh? Can we then switch back to Net Metering or will it be closed to us?

The other possible catch isn't the utility but the weather. It will be interesting to see how it works out for TOU2 customers this winter. It's great in the summer generating all this extra electricity in peak hours, but how will their bills look in the winter and in June gloom?

I sure hope this program is as good as it seems at first look.
 
walterbays said:
This sounds really good ... too good to be true... so good I have to wonder, what's the catch?

Is the switch from Net Metering to TOU2 a one-way street? It's great today buying and selling electricity at the same retail TOU rates. But what if 3 months or 3 years from now SDG&E levies an additional $50 a month connection fee, or drops the rate paid for generation to $0.02/kWh? Can we then switch back to Net Metering or will it be closed to us?

The other possible catch isn't the utility but the weather. It will be interesting to see how it works out for TOU2 customers this winter. It's great in the summer generating all this extra electricity in peak hours, but how will their bills look in the winter and in June gloom?

I sure hope this program is as good as it seems at first look.

Hi Walter,
I just had solar installed, so I'll experience the different "seasons" with the system and the rates myself and let you know. I know I am generating a lot now and that will taper off as the days get shorter.

One thing I should clarify is that being a NEM customer is on top of whatever rate you are on. So you can stay on the tiered DR rate if you want and still be an NEM customer. The thing about the tiered rates is that you get a 1 for 1 credit for your kwh generated vs. what you consume, so you lose the TOU "multiplier" and that's what I think makes the TOU rate more attractive to PV owners. You just have to watch your consumption during peak time so you maximize your solar power export to the grid. And of course, the big differential between the peak TOU rate and super off peak is only in the summer, so you don't get such a large benefit in the winter, but it is a few cents difference in the winter...

So you ask about a possible catch and here is what I think it is...Right now, customers that are doing this (selling power at full retail price during the day and buying back cheaper power at night) are using the grid as their personal storage battery at no charge. Basically, other ratepayers without solar are footing that bill, as well as other things (public purpose programs, low income rate subsidies, etc). The lack of a monthly customer fee will eventually change, but I don't think it will be onerous from what I have heard. I don't mind paying a modest monthly charge for the benefit of having the grid on the other side of my panel to use, either at night when solar isn't generating or to sell my solar generated power at full retail price during the day. I know there are some solar customers that are dead set against paying anything at all, but that isn't really sustainable (especially as about 1200-1500 customers per month are installing solar and becoming NEM customers).

For now, that is what the deal is, and I think it is pretty attractive to solar customers.
 
As for winter I used 650 kWh net in December, generated 332 kWh, cost was $88 toward the annual bill. Gross usage 982.
If I was on standard tiered rates and normal flat net metering my bill would have been $117.
TOU savings in December just $29. So some is saved in Winter but not near as much.
 
walterbays said:
The other possible catch isn't the utility but the weather. It will be interesting to see how it works out for TOU2 customers this winter. It's great in the summer generating all this extra electricity in peak hours, but how will their bills look in the winter and in June gloom?
As others have touched on, there's only two catches:

1. You use more energy from 12PM-6PM than you generate in the summer. This is hard to do unless you have a small PV system and/or run a lot of big loads (A/C, pool pumps, electric dryer, etc) during that time. June gloom isn't really an issue - typically it gets sunny by 12pm. Or it stays cloudy and you don't have to run the A/C. Even if it's cloudy, your system will still generate some energy.
2. In the winter, this isn't really an issue because the TOU rates are more reasonable than the DR rates. The DR rate might only be cheaper if you stay below baseline or 130% baseline. But if you have enough solar to stay under this in the winter, you're very likely to also be a net exporter during summer-peak unless you have a summer-only big power draw like A/C.
 
I think there's the additional catch with SDG&E that you're stuck with the decision for an entire year, right? On the other hand, I can't see how it wouldn't make financial sense if you have solar. Then again, we're 2 miles from the coast, so we use close to zero electricity during peak hours. If we were inland, working from home, and running the AC during peak hours, I'd have to run the math.
 
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