SageBrush
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:44 pm

ttweed wrote:
philip wrote:
It sounds like with your over-production, you will owe the minimum charges, as you would need to purchase at least $120/year in energy to have them all refunded. If you overproduce (energy not dollars), then the approximate $.04/kWh production credit would offset minimum charges, however this isn't a cost effective use of an expensive PV system.

Well, this month was my 1-year account true-up with SDG&E. I ended up with an $8.80 credit. Net generation credits and CA Climate Credit completely cancelled out the $120 minimum charge adjustment, and gave me a net negative bill for the year. I'm a happy camper. I would have paid probably $1500-2000 for the year without solar, and my amortized cost of the system was $650 (plus maybe $250 in lost opportunity cost from paying $13K up front). It looks like free money from the sky to me.

TT
Are you on a TOU plan ? If so, I'll guess that part (perhaps most) of the reason you ended up with a small credit is TOU savings. The utility is paying you to shift consumption and it let's you arbitrage your solar production.

As it should be!
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

SageBrush
Posts: 655
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Location: Colorado

Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:48 pm

sub3marathonman wrote:
ttweed wrote:Well, this month was my 1-year account true-up with SDG&E. I ended up with an $8.80 credit. Net generation credits and CA Climate Credit completely cancelled out the $120 minimum charge adjustment, and gave me a net negative bill for the year. I'm a happy camper.

TT


I'm not from California, but I am impressed!

I was wondering if you could itemize how you ended up with the $8.80 credit for the year? Also, you must be doing serious energy saving measures to have a 5.5kw system covering your usage. I'm thinking the stove/oven and water heater are gas?

Once again, very impressive!

I have 3.88 kW of panels I'm putting up next week that will cover my home's electricity and our ~ 16,000 of annual car miles ... and partially off-set some of our heating from NG.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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ttweed
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Location: La Jolla, CA
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:13 am

sub3marathonman wrote:I'm not from California, but I am impressed!

I was wondering if you could itemize how you ended up with the $8.80 credit for the year? Also, you must be doing serious energy saving measures to have a 5.5kw system covering your usage. I'm thinking the stove/oven and water heater are gas?

Once again, very impressive!


Yes, our little beach bungalow is largely powered by natural gas--the stove, water heater, clothes dryer, and space heater are all gas-fired. There is no A/C, since we live close to the ocean in a peculiar micro-climate that rarely gets uncomfortably hot, or radically cold. The house is post-WWII single-wall construction, with a shed roof (no attic), so it was not well-insulated originally. One of the first things I did when we moved in years ago was replace all the steel-frame windows with dual-pane vinyl sliders. Then when we had to replace the roof membrane, I had it built up with 1-1/2" Polyisocyanurate rigid foam insulation and that helped a lot. Our biggest electricity use is charging the Leaf, which is pretty much equal to our entire household electrical consumption each month.

SageBrush wrote:Are you on a TOU plan ? If so, I'll guess that part (perhaps most) of the reason you ended up with a small credit is TOU savings. The utility is paying you to shift consumption and it let's you arbitrage your solar production.

As it should be!

Yes, we are on the "EVTOU2 Residential" rate schedule. Here is the detail from our NEM Energy summary on the true-up bill:

Image

Beside the $8.80 credit, I received a check for ~$30 from Sunrun yesterday because of their production guarantee under the PPA we signed. They promised our system would produce ~7750 Kwh this year and because of the unusually rainy winter we had here, it only produced ~7435 Kwh. The guarantee says that they will pay us ~$0,10/Kwh for any underproduction, and we get to keep any overproduction. A small windfall, but another bonus. As my wife likes to say in such situations, "I'll eat that," so we will be going to Duke's restaurant next week for happy hour, in all likelihood. :D

TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

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ttweed
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:02 am

BTW, all SDG&E customers with a Leaf should also apply for the $50 EV credit being offered as part of a statewide greenhouse gas reduction program administered by the California Air Resources Board:
http://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/electric-vehicle-climate-credit

There is another thread going on about it here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=485350#p485350

In that thread, Randy also mentions a new experimental rate schedule being introduced, TOU-DR-E3. That's the first I have heard of it. It looks quite complicated, and I don't know if it is "NEM eligible" or if it would offer any advantage for solar customers. Phillip has asked that question in the thread, and maybe Randy can answer that question for us there, or here?

TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

SageBrush
Posts: 655
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:48 am

@ttweed,
My read of the true-up bill shows you have $622.60 of credits. What happens to them ?
I think you better start thinking of ways to use electricity. Perhaps free EV charging for your neighbors ? :mrgreen:

By the way, I spent many a Saturday at what used to be called Alligator point. It was our favorite spot to jump off into the ocean for SCUBA. Getting thrown back on to the rock like dead fish when we came back was a bit crazy because of the sharp molluscs but it make for great entertainment for the onlookers.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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ttweed
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:31 am
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Location: La Jolla, CA
Contact: Website

Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:52 pm

SageBrush wrote:@ttweed,
My read of the true-up bill shows you have $622.60 of credits. What happens to them ?
I think you better start thinking of ways to use electricity. Perhaps free EV charging for your neighbors ? :mrgreen:

By the way, I spent many a Saturday at what used to be called Alligator point. It was our favorite spot to jump off into the ocean for SCUBA. Getting thrown back on to the rock like dead fish when we came back was a bit crazy because of the sharp molluscs but it make for great entertainment for the onlookers.

I'm still not sure of how to read the billing summary, since it's my first one, but I think the "credits" line shows excess generation in terms of dollars that would have been billed if it was used during the peak time of day on the TOU schedule, which is when the system is producing. But they don't pay you (or credit your account) according to that schedule if you don't use enough electricity to offset it. If you have excess generation, they only credit you with about $.04/Kwh, which is the wholesale cost of generation. I think that $622 credit got turned into the $(94.01) "Additional Charges/Payments" credit by this recalculation, but I could be wrong.

"Alligator Point" is a beautiful spot down by La Jolla Cove that is great for diving. Unfortunately, in the last decade it has been totally commandeered by sea lions and harbor seals, along with the Children's Pool around the corner to the south, polluting the water and menacing swimmers. I'm heading down there in a few minutes on my bike, to check out the annual La Jolla Concours event that is held in the park above it.

Cheers,
TT
Tom Tweed
La Jolla, CA
Plowshare Media
2011 SLe #1317 del. 4/1/11
1st bar lost at 31,953 miles
2nd bar lost at 38,685 miles
3rd bar lost at 50,711 miles
4th bar lost at 59,758 miles after 64 months
Battery replaced at 61,307 miles.

SageBrush
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:27 am

@ttweed
I'm still not sure of how to read the billing summary, since it's my first one, but I think the "credits" line shows excess generation in terms of dollars that would have been billed if it was used during the peak time of day on the TOU schedule, which is when the system is producing. But they don't pay you (or credit your account) according to that schedule if you don't use enough electricity to offset it.

I think more likely that the credit is sum of the unused kWh multiplied by their respective values during the time of day they were produced. So a mixture of peak and shoulder rates.

That still sounds like quite a few kWh sent to the utility for 4 cents a kWh. I completely understand a POV that does not lose any sleep over these kWh since the overall deal is excellent and the kWh go towards offset of emissions by someone else. I just wanted to point out that you have a bucket available should you choose.
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Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

philip
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Leaf Number: 327341
Location: El Cajon, CA

Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:25 am

ttweed wrote:I'm still not sure of how to read the billing summary, since it's my first one, but I think the "credits" line shows excess generation in terms of dollars that would have been billed if it was used during the peak time of day on the TOU schedule, which is when the system is producing. But they don't pay you (or credit your account) according to that schedule if you don't use enough electricity to offset it. If you have excess generation, they only credit you with about $.04/Kwh, which is the wholesale cost of generation. I think that $622 credit got turned into the $(94.01) "Additional Charges/Payments" credit by this recalculation, but I could be wrong.


These statements are not easy to read, but I spent quite a bit of time analyzing mine since SDG&E billed me incorrectly and I had to figure it all out to verify I was made whole.

The TOU generation credits you had left at true up was: $531.55 (91.05 of the 622.60 carried over from 02/2017 was used against the usage in 4/2016). You were charged the full minimum charge adjustment as well. So you could have used $651.64 more electricity with no difference in your final bill. You have no credit for excess usage, because you used more kWh from the grid than you sent (You imported a net of 603 kWh from the grid).

I can't tell what the 94.01 additional charges/payment is, but it is likely money that was overpaid at some point to SDG&E - you can check on some of your earlier bills - it is likely on them as well and has been carried forward.

It looks like your system is sized just right for your net usage to be near 0 kWh for the year. TOU causes it to be oversized from a financial perspective, but with TOU time periods shifting you will be in good shape. The talk at the PUC is a 5 year lock in on the current time periods for residential NET metering customers before they shift.

I don't see any reduce your use credits on your bill, you may want to see if you are signed up, there is no downside from doing so and you may very well earn some additional credits on your bill. I'm not certain that they will credit against the minimum charge however.
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philip
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:29 am

SageBrush wrote:I think more likely that the credit is sum of the unused kWh multiplied by their respective values during the time of day they were produced. So a mixture of peak and shoulder rates.


That is correct.

SageBrush wrote:That still sounds like quite a few kWh sent to the utility for 4 cents a kWh.


Since ttweed is a NET consumer of power, the excess "financial kWh" were sent back to the grid at 0 cents/kWh. Essential they could have used quite a bit more power at no change in there billing.
Returned 11/11/15: 2012SL - 10 bar, SOH76% 49.97AHr 35,644mi vin 26790
White 2015 SV Purchased

sub3marathonman
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Re: SDG&E, Solar, Net Metering, and Time of Use 2 (TOU2)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:29 am

philip wrote:
SageBrush wrote:That still sounds like quite a few kWh sent to the utility for 4 cents a kWh.


Since ttweed is a NET consumer of power, the excess "financial kWh" were sent back to the grid at 0 cents/kWh. Essential they could have used quite a bit more power at no change in there billing.


OK, once again, I'm not from California, but I'd appreciate a bit further explanation about this. :oops:

I understand that ttweed ended up using 600kwh over the year, so he is a NET consumer of power. I understand what has been said that much more power could have been used without any financial impact to ttweed.

So the credit of ttweed's kwh (@ $0.04/kwh) sent to the grid went to offset the minimum $120/year charge. I think I'm understanding that.

So why didn't ttweed get any further credit or payment for the other $550 of electricity (even @ $0.04/kwh) that was sent back? If the power company didn't get it from him, they would have had to purchase it somewhere else.

And what would have happened if ttweed used 700kwh less, and was not a NET consumer of power?

I will say, from my perspective, that the power company has a sweet deal there in this situation, as there was no usage at all during peak times, and the PV sent huge amounts, 2.5MW, of power back to the grid at the most critical times. Here in Florida, it is always being stated that PV customers are somehow taking advantage of the power company because the sun doesn't shine at night, but in my opinion it only matters if the sun is shining during peak periods, where by definition somebody with PV generation will use less, or even send back to the grid, as opposed to another customer who runs his dryer, A/C, and arc-welder during peak times because TOU rates are not the norm.

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