Valdemar
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:23 pm

garsh wrote:The new Powerwall 2.0 batteries include a built-in inverter for connecting to the mains. Along with the software for controlling it, this will automatically choose when to charge and discharge the battery. There will be no user-accessible "switch", other than a breaker (which is not something that a user should be flipping regularly).


Agree on automatic operation, but I can't believe there won't be a user-controlled timer you can set so that the charging of the pack only occurs at night at super-off peak rates, it sort of kills the whole time-shifting idea.
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Valdemar
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:31 pm

[youtube][/youtube]
LTLFTcomposite wrote:So with powerwall 2.0 it sounds like a much more integrated solution. Just add panels?

As for backup, wouldn't that require an isolation/transfer switch? I guess since the powerwall would always be connected to the home's internal wiring (service panel) it wouldn't be a transfer switch per se, but there does need to be a disconnect to the utility, no?


Grid-tied solar inverters automatically stop sending power out when they sense power outage on the grid side. I suspect Powerwall will work similarly in a grid-tie configuration. There is also usually a manual disconnect as an extra measure. After all utility companies don't run to every home with solar to flip the switch when they need to work on a broken line or something.
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garsh
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:42 am

Valdemar wrote:Agree on automatic operation, but I can't believe there won't be a user-controlled timer you can set so that the charging of the pack only occurs at night at super-off peak rates, it sort of kills the whole time-shifting idea.
Yes, that will be user-controlled via software. I thought you were asking about a physical switch for this purpose.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:43 am

So a grid tied system like powerwall stops producing if utility power is cut. For it to provide backup power it seems one of two things must be included in the installation:

-Whole house disconnect - this is expensive, 200 amp + contactor wired into the mains

-Moving selected loads to a subpanel so a lower amperage contactor can be used

That's similar to how home standby generators are installed here.
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keydiver
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:18 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Moving selected loads to a subpanel so a lower amperage contactor can be used


I'm pretty sure this is the option Tesla will use:
1. Elon specifically mentioned that just a refrigerator, a TV, a few lights, and a couple outlets would be backed up, not the whole house.
2. This is the way most solar inverters are configured, like my Outback unit. You simply move all the above mentioned devices to a subpanel, install a larger breaker in the main panel to feed the Powerwall 2, probably a 40 amp, and then the output of the Powerwall 2 will feed the subpanel.
I haven't heard any mention of a transfer switch, or the ability to feed power back to the grid, but I sure hope so. My Outback has both, but details from Tesla have been very scanty, to say the least. I'm not in any real big hurry, now that I heard they have extended the Federal 30% tax credit for 3 more years.
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smkettner
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:34 pm

I am more inclined to go fully off-grid if I was to go power wall. Is this just a backup battery or designed for daily cycling?
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Valdemar
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:17 am

smkettner wrote:I am more inclined to go fully off-grid if I was to go power wall. Is this just a backup battery or designed for daily cycling?


Unless you have some philosophical reasons why you might want to do it going off-grid is pretty much guaranteed to be more expensive than grid-tied solar in CA because CA is a NEM state. For this same reason Powerwall doesn't make much sense in CA, except maybe for off-grid where it is really necessary (think cabin in the woods). I suspect Powerwall would mostly be used for time-shifting on TOU in CA in the observable future, you charge at night at super-off-peak rates and then avoid buying expensive energy during the day by using battery energy.
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Zythryn
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:26 am

Valdemar wrote:
smkettner wrote:I am more inclined to go fully off-grid if I was to go power wall. Is this just a backup battery or designed for daily cycling?


Unless you have some philosophical reasons why you might want to do it going off-grid is pretty much guaranteed to be more expensive than grid-tied solar in CA because CA is a NEM state. For this same reason Powerwall doesn't make much sense in CA, except maybe for off-grid where it is really necessary (think cabin in the woods). I suspect Powerwall would mostly be used for time-shifting on TOU in CA in the observable future, you charge at night at super-off-peak rates and then avoid buying expensive energy during the day by using battery energy.


=1
Although in my situation, in MN it makes perfect sense.
We already have solar, but have no backup heating/power source.
So with the Powerwall, even if there is a power outage we can heat our house in the winter.
Granted, it will be cooler than normal, but as long as it stays warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing I am happy:)
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arnis
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:28 pm

Zythryn wrote:
Valdemar wrote:
smkettner wrote:I am more inclined to go fully off-grid if I was to go power wall. Is this just a backup battery or designed for daily cycling?


Unless you have some philosophical reasons why you might want to do it going off-grid is pretty much guaranteed to be more expensive than grid-tied solar in CA because CA is a NEM state. For this same reason Powerwall doesn't make much sense in CA, except maybe for off-grid where it is really necessary (think cabin in the woods). I suspect Powerwall would mostly be used for time-shifting on TOU in CA in the observable future, you charge at night at super-off-peak rates and then avoid buying expensive energy during the day by using battery energy.


=1
Although in my situation, in MN it makes perfect sense.
We already have solar, but have no backup heating/power source.
So with the Powerwall, even if there is a power outage we can heat our house in the winter.
Granted, it will be cooler than normal, but as long as it stays warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing I am happy:)



The worst thing to run on Powerwall is heating system.
Any heat should be stored in water tanks. You want to run water pump on Powerwall,
not heating elements. OK maybe heat pump, but it is very rare in US I believe.
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Zythryn
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:10 pm

arnis wrote:
Zythryn wrote:
+1
Although in my situation, in MN it makes perfect sense.
We already have solar, but have no backup heating/power source.
So with the Powerwall, even if there is a power outage we can heat our house in the winter.
Granted, it will be cooler than normal, but as long as it stays warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing I am happy:)



The worst thing to run on Powerwall is heating system.
Any heat should be stored in water tanks. You want to run water pump on Powerwall,
not heating elements. OK maybe heat pump, but it is very rare in US I believe.


Well, my heating system is a geothermal pump ;)
It is quite efficient, we have been designing this with efficiency in mind, both for its own sake and for backup power purposes.
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