GRA
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GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:22 pm

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... 1-hmg.html
. . . Electricity-generating solar panels will be incorporated into the roof or the hood of vehicles, and will support internal combustion, hybrid and battery electric vehicles with additional electrical power, increasing fuel efficiency and range.

The solar charging technology is being developed to support the vehicle’s main power source, improving mileage and reducing CO2 emissions. The system will have the capability to charge the batteries of electric and hybrid vehicles, as well as those of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, helping to improve fuel efficiency.

Hyundai Motor Group is developing three types of solar roof charging systems: . . . .

The first-generation system, which will be applied to hybrid models, is created out of a structure of silicon solar panels that are integrated into a standard car roof. This system is capable of charging 30 to 60 percent of the battery over the course of a normal day, depending on weather conditions and other environmental factors.

The second-generation semi-transparent solar roof will be applied to ICE vehicles, representing a world-first application for the technology. The semi-transparent technologies can be integrated with a panoramic sunroof, letting light through into the cabin, whilst charging the vehicle’s battery at the same time. Applying solar charging systems to ICE vehicles will help them comply with ever more stringent global environmental laws regulating CO2 emissions.

The third-generation system is currently in testing. It is designed to be applied to the hood and roof of eco-friendly battery electric vehicle models in order to maximize energy output. . . .

Hyundai Motor Group will launch the first generation of this technology into its vehicles after 2019 to help meet global regulations targets and improve vehicle fuel efficiency.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

theothertom
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:29 pm

I wonder how much KW they will supply. IOW, is it really worth it?

GRA
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:55 pm

theothertom wrote:I wonder how much KW they will supply. IOW, is it really worth it?
If they can run much or all of the auxiliary loads, yes. Everything beyond that is a bonus - this isn't about cars that can fully charge themselves while parked.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:14 pm

The numbers seem wildly optimistic. Just being able to exceed parasitic loads overall will be helpful, but won't do anything much for range.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:38 am

GRA wrote:https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... 1-hmg.html
. . . Electricity-generating solar panels will be incorporated into the roof or the hood of vehicles, and will support internal combustion, hybrid and battery electric vehicles with additional electrical power, increasing fuel efficiency and range.

The solar charging technology is being developed to support the vehicle’s main power source, improving mileage and reducing CO2 emissions. The system will have the capability to charge the batteries of electric and hybrid vehicles, as well as those of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, helping to improve fuel efficiency.

Hyundai Motor Group is developing three types of solar roof charging systems: . . . .

The first-generation system, which will be applied to hybrid models, is created out of a structure of silicon solar panels that are integrated into a standard car roof. This system is capable of charging 30 to 60 percent of the battery over the course of a normal day, depending on weather conditions and other environmental factors.

The second-generation semi-transparent solar roof will be applied to ICE vehicles, representing a world-first application for the technology. The semi-transparent technologies can be integrated with a panoramic sunroof, letting light through into the cabin, whilst charging the vehicle’s battery at the same time. Applying solar charging systems to ICE vehicles will help them comply with ever more stringent global environmental laws regulating CO2 emissions.

The third-generation system is currently in testing. It is designed to be applied to the hood and roof of eco-friendly battery electric vehicle models in order to maximize energy output. . . .

Hyundai Motor Group will launch the first generation of this technology into its vehicles after 2019 to help meet global regulations targets and improve vehicle fuel efficiency.
Obviously they are talking about the 12V battery here. Since most car batteries hold less than 1kWh, that means less than 300-600Wh per day. Assuming about 4h of equivalent direct sunlight, that's 75-150W. Not a whole lot. Of course my numbers are guesses, but it gives you a ballpark idea.

I fail to see how a system that generates 0.6kWh/day or less can make a meaningful impact on fuel efficiency or range.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:11 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
GRA wrote:https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... 1-hmg.html
. . . Electricity-generating solar panels will be incorporated into the roof or the hood of vehicles, and will support internal combustion, hybrid and battery electric vehicles with additional electrical power, increasing fuel efficiency and range.

The solar charging technology is being developed to support the vehicle’s main power source, improving mileage and reducing CO2 emissions. The system will have the capability to charge the batteries of electric and hybrid vehicles, as well as those of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, helping to improve fuel efficiency.

Hyundai Motor Group is developing three types of solar roof charging systems: . . . .

The first-generation system, which will be applied to hybrid models, is created out of a structure of silicon solar panels that are integrated into a standard car roof. This system is capable of charging 30 to 60 percent of the battery over the course of a normal day, depending on weather conditions and other environmental factors. <snip>
Obviously they are talking about the 12V battery here. Since most car batteries hold less than 1kWh, that means less than 300-600Wh per day. Assuming about 4h of equivalent direct sunlight, that's 75-150W. Not a whole lot. Of course my numbers are guesses, but it gives you a ballpark idea.

I fail to see how a system that generates 0.6kWh/day or less can make a meaningful impact on fuel efficiency or range.
As I read it, the bolded section refers to the hybrid drive battery, and they are typically a bit over 1 kWh( IIRR the Prius was around 1.3kWh (forget which gen.), but that was total, not usable, and a hybrid battery is designed for max. power, not max. energy. Naturally, there will be a converter to run 12V loads.

As for range effects, you want to be able to run the DRLs, fan, infotainment system/computers, maybe seat/steering wheel heaters and provide some or all of the power for a heat pump (In the Prius Prime, "Toyota and Denso say the system uses 63 percent less energy than a traditional heating system, and helps extend the car's battery range up to 21 percent in cold temperatures"), plus (while the car is parked) exhausting hot air without running the battery down, thus reducing the A/C load on start-up while keeping the drive battery's full energy available for driving.

So, while a roof or hood-sized PV module will not be able to provide a lot of power, it will provide a small but sometimes significant range boost, especially when (in an HEV/ICE) you don't have to drive an alternator with a belt. This is far more useful than the token, tiny PV module on LEAF SVs. Fully covering all the car body panels (i.e. also doors/fenders) with PV would increase the aux. loads that could be handled, and would even allow intermittently-used cars (like mine) to get most or all of their charging direct from the sun, not that that's likely to be common. OTOH, any extra weight due to the modules would partially offset some of the gain.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:27 pm

This type of system is a total waste on any vehicle which is parked in a garage during the daytime.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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GRA
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:56 pm

RegGuheert wrote:This type of system is a total waste on any vehicle which is parked in a garage during the daytime.
Of course, and it's also a total waste at night. So?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:24 am

GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:This type of system is a total waste on any vehicle which is parked in a garage during the daytime.
Of course, and it's also a total waste at night. So?
Let me be more clear: solar panels should not be installed on cars because in many cases they will not be usable. Many, many cars are parked in garages or other parking structures, particularly in the high-density (read: crowded) cities which you recommend that people live in. Solar panels should be installed in places where they will be hit by the sun. Otherwise we are simply damaging the planet for no reason, i.e. we are virtue signalling.

On top of that, even cars parked in the sun will largely squander the resources which went into the manufacture of the solar panels. This is because the 12V battery is likely to be full much of the time, so the panels will not produce at a full rate. Also, the panels cannot be oriented in a manner which optimizes their production.

It's a dumb idea right up there with biofuels and nearly every hydrogen-powered vehicle made.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GetOffYourGas
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Re: GCC: Kia and Hyundai to introduce solar roof charging on selected vehicles: HEV, BEV and ICE

Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:59 am

It's a dumb idea, yet it just won't die. It sounds so good to those who are uninformed and unwilling/unable to run the math. Putting those same panels on a rooftop somewhere just makes so much more sense. For example, Kia/Hyundai could make much more of an actual difference by putting those panels on top of one of their factories instead on a bunch of cars.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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