ElectricEddy
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Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:45 pm

See the attached url
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.4178795

This is major bad news for Vancouverites with a long commute and no charging at work.
$2 per hour on an L2 ?
$16 fee plus metered rate for DCFC?
You know you can make it in the summer but in the winter its going to be close to gas prices.
Just imagine having to pay this EVERY DAY!
I know I will be avoiding Vancouver like the plague (so what else is new?) but I really feel sorry for you guys.
I hope this doesn't spread
It may have already past council but never too late to voice your opinion.
On the island DCFC cost is $0.35 per kWh (plus parking fee's) which is reasonable seeing as we pay $0.10 / kWh as residential average rate.
Why don't they just do the same thing there?
If they are trying to get rid of the squatters and illegal parking at the L2 charging stations I think that rate is enough to prevent that, maybe limit the parking time to 2-3 hours max at an L2 and 1 hr max at L3 and better enforce.
Comments?
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

RonDawg
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:38 am

$2/hour is what ChargePoint used to charge on this side of the border, now it's a rather high per kWH rate. A DCFC connection using an EVGo (owned by Texas energy giant NRG) station averages me about $12 to go from 1/4 to 3/4 full. Does Vancouver contract with an independent company to provide these EVSE's/DCFC's?
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

SageBrush
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:21 am

ElectricEddy wrote:$2 per hour on an L2 ?

On the island DCFC cost is $0.35 per kWh (plus parking fee's) which is reasonable seeing as we pay $0.10 / kWh as residential average rate.

Try the arithmetic again
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

ElectricEddy
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:13 pm

RonDawg wrote:$2/hour is what ChargePoint used to charge on this side of the border, now it's a rather high per kWH rate. A DCFC connection using an EVGo (owned by Texas energy giant NRG) station averages me about $12 to go from 1/4 to 3/4 full. Does Vancouver contract with an independent company to provide these EVSE's/DCFC's?

Greenlots runs the networks around here. Not sure about Vancouver.
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

ElectricEddy
Posts: 365
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:26 pm

SageBrush wrote:
ElectricEddy wrote:$2 per hour on an L2 ?

On the island DCFC cost is $0.35 per kWh (plus parking fee's) which is reasonable seeing as we pay $0.10 / kWh as residential average rate.

Try the arithmetic again

Nothing wrong with the math. 5.8kWh on a 208V evse @ $0.35/hr is $2.03 . This should be charged in my opinion right now they are free causing the congestion problem. If your driving a phev c/w a 3kw charger this price will double with the proposed hourly chrge.
If I plug into a shared EVSE and another ev plugs in to the second head we will both be paying double as they are only rated at 6kWh total( not to many around but they are there, Chemainus for eg) .
I guess my beef is the DCFC charge of $16 PLUS the $0.35/kWh Plus parking.
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

SageBrush
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:45 am

ElectricEddy wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
ElectricEddy wrote:$2 per hour on an L2 ?

On the island DCFC cost is $0.35 per kWh (plus parking fee's) which is reasonable seeing as we pay $0.10 / kWh as residential average rate.

Try the arithmetic again

Nothing wrong with the math. 5.8kWh on a 208V evse @ $0.35/hr is $2.03 . This should be charged in my opinion right now they are free causing the congestion problem. If your driving a phev c/w a 3kw charger this price will double with the proposed hourly chrge.
If I plug into a shared EVSE and another ev plugs in to the second head we will both be paying double as they are only rated at 6kWh total( not to many around but they are there, Chemainus for eg) .
I guess my beef is the DCFC charge of $16 PLUS the $0.35/kWh Plus parking.

We should be able to agree that 35 cents a kWh is pretty comparable to $2 an hour by L2 for most EVs on the road, meaning at least 6.6 kW OBC. After all, even if the commercial charger is 208V instead of 240V, 30Amps is a fairly typical amperage, giving 6.24 kW for a kwh cost of 200/6.24 = 32 cents a kWh. So if you are happy with the island per kWh charge, the L2 hourly rate should not bother you either.

The DCFC combined rate of 35 cents a kWh + $16 a hour does indeed sound expensive -- about twice as much as L2. OTOH it works out to a per mile charge not too different than what you pay for petrol. The big difference for most people though is that DCFC is a small fraction of their total miles while petrol cars pay that all the time.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:15 pm

SageBrush wrote:
ElectricEddy wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Try the arithmetic again

Nothing wrong with the math. 5.8kWh on a 208V evse @ $0.35/hr is $2.03 . This should be charged in my opinion right now they are free causing the congestion problem. If your driving a phev c/w a 3kw charger this price will double with the proposed hourly chrge.
If I plug into a shared EVSE and another ev plugs in to the second head we will both be paying double as they are only rated at 6kWh total( not to many around but they are there, Chemainus for eg) .
I guess my beef is the DCFC charge of $16 PLUS the $0.35/kWh Plus parking.

We should be able to agree that 35 cents a kWh is pretty comparable to $2 an hour by L2 for most EVs on the road, meaning at least 6.6 kW OBC. After all, even if the commercial charger is 208V instead of 240V, 30Amps is a fairly typical amperage, giving 6.24 kW for a kwh cost of 200/6.24 = 32 cents a kWh. <snip>

Don't forget to apply an inefficiency factor to distinguish 'from the wall' from 'into the battery', typically .85 to .9 for L2, if comparing to gas prices. Charging by the hour does hurt slow-charging PHEVs and BEVs compare to per kWh pricing. Blink originally had hourly fees, but switched to per kWh (and jacked the prices so they worked out even higher). At least per kWh, everyone gets screwed equally.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Randy
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:07 pm

GRA,
If we assume that Blink's 49 cent per kWh price is about 35 cents per kWh above many people's price to charge in their garage, do you think you can run a nationwide charging business on that margin and make money?

Considering employee wages, network payments, electric bills, host payments, insurance, maintenance, call center, credit card fees, etc?

I don't think it is a business that can be profitable at this time, therefore I don't consider 49 cent per kWh retail electricity pricing to be a "rip off" or "gouging"...It's just the cost for a convenient charge away from your garage.

Just like you can buy a coke for less at the store to drink at home, but at the movies or at a sporting event it costs a lot more because of many of the same factors to run a business...

I wish more EV drivers would recognize that. Public charging can't be free or even low cost long-term if you want a business to stick around and offer it...

SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:39 pm

I read parts of the source document
http://council.vancouver.ca/20170627/documents/rr1d.pdf

If I read correctly, the proposed fees are
L2: $2 per hour plus any applicable parking fees
DCFC: $16 per hour plus any applicable parking fees

The crazy cost is 91 cents for each credit card transaction. That is not money to the city; it goes to financial services vendor(s).
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Vancouver to set fees for Electric car charging

Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:46 am

SageBrush wrote:I read parts of the source document
http://council.vancouver.ca/20170627/documents/rr1d.pdf

If I read correctly, the proposed fees are
L2: $2 per hour plus any applicable parking fees
DCFC: $16 per hour plus any applicable parking fees

The crazy cost is 91 cents for each credit card transaction. That is not money to the city; it goes to financial services vendor(s).


that is a huge difference from $16 plus kwh rates!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30 (build 10/2016); 22,003 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 101.21% kwh 28.1 QCs 190, L2's 213
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