seanxushen
Gold Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:58 am
Delivery Date: 18 Nov 2015

Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:17 pm

Dont hate me, I am getting a Model 3.


Selling my White Leaf SL 2015 (OCt 2015) with only 16000KM on it. I am located in Markham, Ontario,

This is a leaf forum, so I think that I do not need explain what is Nissan Leaf SL... and the benefits to drive an EV..

------------------

SOLD....
Last edited by seanxushen on Sat May 05, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:54 pm

No hate. At least you're getting into another EV and helping beta test. :)

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:04 pm

No hate here -- I'm waiting for my Model 3 too.
I'm going to keep the LEAF though if my wife agrees -- it is a fantastic golf cart (aka around-town EV) that I was able to buy on the cheap.

I've tried to convince my wife that one car is adequate but she disagrees so we compromise by owing 1.4 cars.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:05 pm

cwerdna wrote:No hate. At least you're getting into another EV and helping beta test. :)

That was a bit of cheap shot, coming from you.

What do you call the 40 kWh LEAF then ? Perhaps a prototype to test the driver assist functions while waiting for a decent battery ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:13 pm

SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:No hate. At least you're getting into another EV and helping beta test. :)

That was a bit of cheap shot, coming from you.

What do you call the 40 kWh LEAF then ? Perhaps a prototype to test the driver assist functions while waiting for a decent battery ?

Ouch! Not intended as a shot, cheap or otherwise.

It's pretty clear the Model 3 was a rush job and it shows judging by the defects (e.g. paint problems, uneven gaps, cars requiring a flatbed), incomplete software and buggy software.

The upside is that those early adopters of Model 3 are helping find bugs in the above and hopefully, in a year or two from now, Model 3's coming off the line and the software updates are much better than now.

And, from the examples I posted at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.56176/, it seems pretty clear that Tesla's durability testing and validation are either lacking, or there are manufacturing consistently problems if durability testing and validation are in line w/other major automakers that make reliable vehicles. (e.g. Model S door handles, Model X "FWD" door problems, folks who went thru 7+ drive unit replacements until that problem got under control but we still see some DU complete failures, etc.)

40 kWh Leaf ProPilot Assist is what it is. I don't think Nissan made any promises to extend or add functionality to that for '18 Leafs. It seems the '18 Leaf is feature complete (e.g. didn't ship w/missing missing FM radio, not working w/CHAdeMO at all, missing Bluetooth A2DP streaming functionality, etc.). I don't think the '18 Leaf had this weirdness going on either: https://electrek.co/2017/10/06/tesla-mo ... ery-seats/.

No car is perfect, but I can safely say that the '11 Leaf at this point from launch and '18 Leaf seem to be a lot more trouble free than the Model 3.

It is FAR too early to draw any conclusions about the '18 Leaf battery in terms of degradation. We need to wait thru at least 2 summers to see how it holds up.

Side note: This fanboy at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2590505 asserts
Any new production car by any maker is a beta car and those that got their car first because they are employees, owners, or jumped the line by paying a premium are the testers.
:roll:
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:43 pm

^^ I pretty much agree with the sentiment that any new model from any manufacturer is going to have kinks that get worked out the first year or so as tens of thousands of drivers do goofy things and use the cars in ways untested. My impression from reading CR over the years is that this is so even for highly regarded Japanese nameplates with their stellar QA.

Tesla has been subjected to negative press over "panel gaps" but this complaint is already receding fast and people receiving recent production now report good to excellent fit & finish.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

like2bike
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:35 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 00581
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:02 pm

Even though I know the Model 3 is not the right car for me. I am in many ways jealous of Model 3 owners. Today I witnessed a particularly good example. I was driving my Prius v and decided to check on a L3 charger at a service area (Darien CT, Rt 95 SB). I noticed they now have 2 CHAdeMO stations. They had one the last time I had my LEAF there. However, each had a screen was barely readable and said something indicated they were dead. Adjacent to this sad pair of stations was a row of 4 Superchargers with 3 Teslas presumably happily charging. And Superchargers are at both SB and NB areas in Darien, and CHAdeMO only at this one. Now I just read on Plugshare:

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 the two ChaDeMo electric vehicle chargers at the Darien Southbound service plaza on I-95 will be decommissioned. This will NOT affect the existing Tesla Superchargers at the same location. Future plans for non-Tesla EV charging at this location are presently undetermined. Connecticut DOT

Then I checked the Merritt Pkwy station in Greenwich, CT and it's the same story. Sounds like the end of free CHAdeMO from CT state. Hope they get replaced with paid CHAdeMO. That happened to a NY state station in Flushing NY. Free for a few years and then changed to EVgo.
2013 Leaf S on Long Island, NY
Delivered 3/18/2013, bought off-lease 2/20/2016 $9619
Schneider EVlink level 2 charging

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Moderator
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:17 pm

cwerdna wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
cwerdna wrote:No hate. At least you're getting into another EV and helping beta test. :)

That was a bit of cheap shot, coming from you.

What do you call the 40 kWh LEAF then ? Perhaps a prototype to test the driver assist functions while waiting for a decent battery ?

Ouch! Not intended as a shot, cheap or otherwise.

It's pretty clear the Model 3 was a rush job and it shows judging by the defects (e.g. paint problems, uneven gaps, cars requiring a flatbed), incomplete software and buggy software.

The upside is that those early adopters of Model 3 are helping find bugs in the above and hopefully, in a year or two from now, Model 3's coming off the line and the software updates are much better than now.

And, from the examples I posted at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.56176/, it seems pretty clear that Tesla's durability testing and validation are either lacking, or there are manufacturing consistently problems if durability testing and validation are in line w/other major automakers that make reliable vehicles. (e.g. Model S door handles, Model X "FWD" door problems, folks who went thru 7+ drive unit replacements until that problem got under control but we still see some DU complete failures, etc.)

40 kWh Leaf ProPilot Assist is what it is. I don't think Nissan made any promises to extend or add functionality to that for '18 Leafs. It seems the '18 Leaf is feature complete (e.g. didn't ship w/missing missing FM radio, not working w/CHAdeMO at all, missing Bluetooth A2DP streaming functionality, etc.). I don't think the '18 Leaf had this weirdness going on either: https://electrek.co/2017/10/06/tesla-mo ... ery-seats/.

No car is perfect, but I can safely say that the '11 Leaf at this point from launch and '18 Leaf seem to be a lot more trouble free than the Model 3.

It is FAR too early to draw any conclusions about the '18 Leaf battery in terms of degradation. We need to wait thru at least 2 summers to see how it holds up.

Side note: This fanboy at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2590505 asserts
Any new production car by any maker is a beta car and those that got their car first because they are employees, owners, or jumped the line by paying a premium are the testers.
:roll:


Telsa issues are resolved and the minor issues were early and any few larger ones were isolated and hyped. LEAF issues seem to remain for a long time and any software issues are permanent and never get updated until a new model. But clearly people seem to vote their choices in numbers. FYI- Tesla paint blows the doors off Nissan pain and always has. My LEAF paint would almost blow off if it could reach Teslas speeds. And spray on carpet has never been my thing,
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cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:25 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Telsa issues are resolved and the minor issues were early and any few larger ones were isolated and hyped. LEAF issues seem to remain for a long time and any software issues are permanent and never get updated until a new model. But clearly people seem to vote their choices in numbers.

Uh huh...

Edmunds got their drive unit replaced 3 times along w/battery pack + other stuff in their long term (30K miles in 17 months) S : https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2 ... ap-up.html under Maintenance & Repairs. Their 1st replacement outright failed while accelerating on the the highway. HV battery pack got replaced along the way.

Took Tesla years to seem to resolve the DU noise issues:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1603011
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1619754
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1653580

Numerous other folks have gone thru multiple DU replacements in the first few years of S. From https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1279598 in Dec 2015
Of the vehicles that have been reported to the Plug In America Model S owner survey, 32% of the 2012 model year cars have had their drive unit replaced at least once, 27% of 2013's, and 18% of 2014's and so far none of the very few 2015's reported.

Although not apples to oranges, for context, the table at the bottom lists average problem rates for systems in cars in CR surveys during a 12 month window of time (shorter for latest model year): https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... histories/. I don't buy cars with below average reliability ratings unless there's a really good reason to.

The noise problems seem to have gone away with the -Q revision DUs, except some of them still fail (to deliver propulsion).

Now that folks are past their 4 year basic warranty, MCU and door handle problems are rearing their heads besides half shaft-issues: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nty.93857/

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-x/2 ... ap-up.html under Maintenance & Repairs sure had lots of problems. I can post about another 6-10 threads easily on various FWD and front door related issues. Here are a few for starters
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ing.77686/, can lead to https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1748642
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2571953 has pointers to a bunch of paint damage due to the falcon wing doors
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... rts.71339/ - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1602160 shows his X on a flatbed w/the doors open and bungee cords holding them down. He was "done" at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1733581
Well, here you go. I am OFFICIALLY DONE - I have not had a single week with the car back without issues with the FWD. What I have noticed is that if the car is facing the sun even on a relatively cool day of 70-75 degrees, the door just doesn't operate properly. Here is a video (I've recorded several others on separate days, but have not had time to upload to youtube):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVjekN15fsk

A whole bunch of Model X folks had been getting half-shafts replaced, sometimes multiple times: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... der.74184/.

Model X ended up being dead last at https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... able-cars/ vs. being middle of pack of bottom 10 the year before: https://web.archive.org/web/20170101002 ... able-cars/.

I've seen some Model 3 DU replacements already besides other issues that have required a trip on a flatbed truck.
Examples of Model 3 DUs requiring replacement:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2603089
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2670774
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ms.108870/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2577144
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ed.107879/ (this guy went thru quite a saga: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2572071)

How many Leaf motor/gearbox replacements have we seen here before any reason despite now over 300K Leafs on the road since Dec 2010? I don't know the # off the top of my head, but I can safely say that here on MNL + the Leaf FB groups I"m on, it's in the single digits.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Dont hate me, I am getting Model 3, and selling my Leaf SL 2015

Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:37 am

seanxushen wrote:Dont hate me, I am getting a Model 3.

Congrats!


Unfortunately, the Hatfields and McCoys are already lofting thread-bombs in this thread.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 32K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 22K mi
Model 3 reservation (invited to order 1/18)

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