dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:21 pm

MobileEV wrote:If you need me to read any prospective LEAF with LEAF Spy to get the current battery health, let me know. We would need the seller's approval and I can send you a screen shot.

Does one have to pay personal property tax on leased vehicles? I mean, you don't own it, so it's not property, right?

Karl


Yes, you do have to pay personal property tax on a leased vehicle, at least in Missouri you do. I've leased before and I always got a PP tax bill from the lessor. They pay it, then bill you for it.

dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:30 pm

cdherman wrote:I am pretty sure you could make this work, with a post 4/2013 battery. Age is pretty much irrelevant, unless its been beat to crap in a hot place. BUT, you will need to charge at work. Period. If these is any question about that being possible, then be wary......


Charging at work shouldn't be a problem, and I was expecting to have to do that.

My anxiety or reservations is about the longevity of the battery. If I can get at least 50 miles of range every day on a full charge regardless of weather and using the climate control in a normal manner on a 2013 model for the next four years I'd probably go get one, assuming I can find one. My problem is I don't know if that is a good expectation for driving around 17K to 18K miles per year and charging the battery multiple times a day.

This is basically why I found this forum, to see if there were any local Leaf owners that had over three year old Leafs and what they were seeing in terms of range and range drop off.

If someone locally had an early 2011 and was still driving it and had been driving it 50+ miles a day throughout the year, I'd be very curious to know what their battery is like today. I know the battery on that model isn't as good as a post-March 2013 battery, but if that battery had held up well here then a 2013 should do as good or better.

Seems most people are still leasing for three years and moving on and those experiences don't help much in my used Leaf decision making.

cdherman
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:08 pm

OK, lets perspective this . I have a 2012 with 41000 miles. It has the same battery as the 2011. And a crappy heater. And a slow charger.

I am now at 10 bars, have not LeafSpy'ed recently, though I have a reader and the program on my iphone. Ironically, I keep on forgetting the passcode for the dongle!!!! But regardless, I lost the 11 bar about 300 miles ago, a couple of weeks. My battery was made in 5/2012, so over 4 years. Internet says I have a little under 78.5% bat left. If Leaf lithium technology is at all like most other lithium bats, my capacity loss curve is flattening. It helps that I hardly ever park in sun. My garage is often cooled on the bad days (for the dog, not the car!)

I often charge ONLY at work (Hey, its free!). I drive home and then back to work the next AM. 39 miles round trip. Charged to 80%. And I usually arrive back at work with 2 bars. I could perhaps eek out another 10 miles, maybe more. In cold weather I charge some at home. If I ran errands after work, I charge a little at home. Sometimes, I forget to unplug and it gets to 80% at home. So I get 39 miles on a single 80% charge. You are wanting 32 miles -- should work, even in winter.

But fundamentally, because I charge at work, I can, and do, occasionally put 60 miles on my 2012 in a day. 20 to work in AM and 40 more in the evening. And that's usually charging to 80%. If I have a new route or project and I don't want to stress, I hit the override button when I get out at work, and the car gets juiced to 100% I *think* I could still get 50 to 55 miles out of one charge, especially if I drop my speed to speed limit.

With a 4/2013 plus battery, if you charge at work, I think charging to 80%, one could reliably clock 64 (32 x 2) miles a day total with no problem. But to be nice to the battery, you probably should charge at home too, whenever you put some extra miles on, rather than going to 100% at work and trying to make the round trip, like I do. Charging to 100% with regularity is not wise. Once in a while, I think is no problem. Lots of information suggests that 100% charge is not really bad either, unless you leave the battery at 100% for a long time, or get the battery hot.
2016 SV 30kwh, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.2KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999
Kansas City MO

User avatar
ksnogas2112
Posts: 1215
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:56 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 021881
Location: Lenexa KS (Kansas City)
Contact: Website

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:26 am

I'm in a similar boat with CD. June 2012 purchase and May 2012 battery - these are the last batteries from Japan. I'm down 2 capacity bars and sitting closer to 43k miles. I can still get 50+ miles city. I'm not sure what my actual longer range would be at highway speeds. I can run to the Legends and back (Lenexa to Legends) on one charge. I can do Bonner Spring to Lenexa round trip (30 miles @70mph) with 4 charge bars left but if I stay on 435 past Lenexa at 70 to the Antioch exit and round trip from middle of Overland Park to the middle of Bonner Springs it gets real iffy on making the 40-50 mile roundtrip trip. Drop down to 55 and it's no problem.

I lost my second bar last fall.

On a side note, the bump in electric bill for me was about $20-30/month when I was charging exclusively at home.

I can say lease, lease, lease. I regret buying but not having my EV. If I leased I would be on my second new one at a much lower monthly cost than my car payment.

Tom
Tom in KS
100 Mile Club-#57
http://ksnogas.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Try reading a book, it's a novel experience
MY 2012 - Cayenne Red-45,000+ miles

dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:50 am

ksnogas2112 wrote:I'm in a similar boat with CD. June 2012 purchase and May 2012 battery - these are the last batteries from Japan. I'm down 2 capacity bars and sitting closer to 43k miles. I can still get 50+ miles city. I'm not sure what my actual longer range would be at highway speeds. I can run to the Legends and back (Lenexa to Legends) on one charge. I can do Bonner Spring to Lenexa round trip (30 miles @70mph) with 4 charge bars left but if I stay on 435 past Lenexa at 70 to the Antioch exit and round trip from middle of Overland Park to the middle of Bonner Springs it gets real iffy on making the 40-50 mile roundtrip trip. Drop down to 55 and it's no problem.

I lost my second bar last fall.

On a side note, the bump in electric bill for me was about $20-30/month when I was charging exclusively at home.

I can say lease, lease, lease. I regret buying but not having my EV. If I leased I would be on my second new one at a much lower monthly cost than my car payment.

Tom


If I were getting new I would only do a lease on an EV for the foreseeable future. But on the used market the Leafs are dirt cheap and if the battery will last for another four years I think they are well worth the purchase if the mileage fits within your needs.

If I needed to replace my current car, which I don't I would definitely go ahead and lease a new Leaf. I'm only considering a change right now because of the cheap prices on the used market. If I can get one that will last me four years, cash flow wise I will come out ahead over keeping my ICE vehicle. But if I were to lease new today the numbers don't work out and I'd end up spending more $'s over the next three years.

MobileEV
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:30 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 022612
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:11 pm

I just took the leap and sold my 2012 SL with 80% SOH per LEAF Spy and leased a 2016 SV with 30 kWh. EPA says 107 miles range, Dean West says 100+ real world range, and after a full day of running errands, the new and bigger battery makes a huge difference.

The only bummer is that the new LEAF does not have a charge to 80% timer setting, so I have to watch the 100% charging manually or figure out another way. Juice Plug comes to mind. https://emotorwerks.com/index.php/store-juicebox-ev-charging-stations/1631-juiceplug-a-universal-smart-ev-charging-adapter/category_pathway-23

I found the best deal at Joe Machens Nissan in Columbia, MO. They even delivered the car for free.

Shameless plug: Lucas Bruno was good to deal with. He even knows a thing or two about LEAFs, which is shocking for a Nissan dealership. Tell him I sent you.

Lucas Bruno
Joe Machens Nissan
201 Nebraska Ave
Columbia, MO 65203
(573) 443-1660 (Store)
(630) 544-9138 (Cell)
lucas.bruno@machens.com

-Karl
------------
Karl Bloss
2016 LEAF SV, Brilliant Silver
2012 LEAF SL, Cayenne Red - sold 2016 @ 35K miles
2015 Tesla P85D
10 KW grid-tied solar
Kansas City, MO, USA (in the Northland)

dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:52 pm

Do you mind sharing what deal you got at Machens?

I hit Fenton Nissan in the Northland yesterday. They had an SL and an SV, but the SL was in a storage lot with a dead battery, so I test drove the SV. It did not have the premium package.

I wasn't serious about buying that day, but of course the salespeople always try to make a sale so I got into that dance with them.

Where we ended it was $250/mo (all-inclusive of taxes, dest charge, etc) with $2,500 down for a 15K miles per year lease. I didn't spend much time talking about the cost to prepay some miles though. I'm pretty sure I'll be driving closer to 17K per year vs the 15K.

dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:49 pm

I made a call to a Nissan dealer out near SF. They quoted me a 2016 SV (no prem package), 15K miles per year at $162 before sales tax. Based on my tax rate, the after tax lease is roughly $175. That offer was for $3K down.

Looks like it might be worth buying a CA Leaf over the phone and have it shipped to KC.

MobileEV
Posts: 138
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:30 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 022612
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:58 pm

$322 per month including tax for 36 months with $0 down. So overall lease payments = $11,592. Buyout just under $11,000.

I probably could have gotten better if I had waited, but I was ready to jump.

BTW, I absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the 100+ mile range, 6.6 KW charger, increased trunk space, etc. I can see me having the same cavalier range attitude around town as I do with my Tesla.

-Karl
------------
Karl Bloss
2016 LEAF SV, Brilliant Silver
2012 LEAF SL, Cayenne Red - sold 2016 @ 35K miles
2015 Tesla P85D
10 KW grid-tied solar
Kansas City, MO, USA (in the Northland)

dougcpa
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:03 am

Re: LEAF in Kansas City

Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:55 am

MobileEV wrote:$322 per month including tax for 36 months with $0 down. So overall lease payments = $11,592. Buyout just under $11,000.

I probably could have gotten better if I had waited, but I was ready to jump.

BTW, I absolutely LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the 100+ mile range, 6.6 KW charger, increased trunk space, etc. I can see me having the same cavalier range attitude around town as I do with my Tesla.

-Karl


I will admit I'm taken with the 30 kWh batteries. I then wouldn't have to worry about charging at work most, if not all days.

Stock around here is pretty depressing. I did a stock search for a 10 mile radius on one CA zip code and got 41 new Leaf results.

150 mil range search on a central KC zip and I only get 6 results. To get similar results to a 10 mi CA radius I had to go out to 250 miles which netted me 44 Leafs covering KC, Omaha, Des Moines, St. Louis, Wichita, and Topeka.

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