PA Turnpike Commission installing chargers

Per recent on line article in Philadelphia newspapers, the PA Turnpike Commission is finally implementing their plan of installling chargers along the East/West Turnpike. Apparently, they will install at King Of Prussia, Lancaster, Harrisburg and then a Pittsburgh location(New Stanton?, I can't recall) at the rest stops. Those four will be installed this summer, with many more planned. I wonder if these will be Level II's or Level II QC's? Although nice in a pinch, I don't see the Level II's having a major impact on EV usage, as waiting for an hour to get 15 miles of charge is not really going to do the trick for most of us. My I-MiEV does not have the QC option, so even if Level II being installed, it won't do too much for me. However, I am still happy to see them doing this, it represents a step in the right direction. Also, if Level III's are being installed, those who have QC should appreciate it. Maybe this is the push that is neded, and if Level III QC's are more available, many more people would opt for the QC option in their EV. On the PA TNPK, at typical speeds on a decent weather day(Spring time) I would probably get no more than 55 miles range, that won't take me far enough to be able to make much effective use of the chargers, but as I said I am still gung ho that "something" is happening.

Lou

Interesting. We have a 2012 Leaf with the QC (Level-3) option up front, so we could benefit from this if the distance works out right. For us on the freeway I'm with you, maybe 55 miles on a nice flat/warm summer day. For us to get to Pittsburgh Children's Museum with our 5-yr old for example would be 125 miles each way. But the half-way mark is actually south of Youngstown, not in PA. We're in Ohio ....

Never the less, like you, this sounds GREAT! I would love to replace our Leaf lease with a Tesla down the road. So seeing turnpikes in the surrounding states offer something that would work on future EVs that I may own with the distance to make use of them... YAY!!

Maybe Ohio will eventually suit. Actually, I am sure that they will at some point. If the batteries on the LEAF(and I have an even smaller battery on my Mitsubishi I-MiEV)were just a little bit larger(say 20% more) a lot of people would find this doable. 100-125 mile trips could easily be made if only the batteries were a little bighgher and we had access to chargers. Again, though, Level III's make the difference in such a trip. Level II's are still too slow. Of course, the upgraded on board chargers of the 2013 Leaf would mean in an hour you'd get 20 miles, which aint bad...

Lou

I am glad to see progress in the charging infrastructure, but I am afraid that this could turn out to be a big waste of money, at least in the short term. I hope not, I pay extra money on my lease every month for a QC port that I will probably never use. The lease is up in less than 2 years, and I will turn in the car since there is no way that it will be worth the residual.

I agree that if the chargers are level 2 they will be useless. No one is going to wait at a turnpike rest station for 6 hours so they can drive 1 more hour until they need another charge.

Even if they are QCs, they are no good for long trips, because even a half hour stop for each hour of driving is ridiculous. I could see using a QC in Lancaster if I wanted to visit the outlet malls. One stop to charge so I can get home would be OK. The problem is that I would have to be able to count on that charger. If there is a line of cars in front of me to charge, I could be there for hours. If the charger is down, I would be completely shafted.

Back in February, I had an email conversation with the PA DEP Community Relations folks regarding the status of the "electric vehicle infrastructure" project (it's partially funded via a grant from their Alternative Fuels Incentive Grant Program).

Here's a summary of our exchange as I asked questions about schedule, location, charge rate (L2 vs L3) and type:

In checking with our Energy staff in Harrisburg, I confirmed that the Turnpike electric vehicle infrastructure project work is expected to begin this year and be completed by June 2014.

I don’t have an exact list, but confirmed that the plan includes installation of charging station at 17 Turnpike service plazas (two Level III and one Level II electric vehicle service stations at each plaza, except for three plazas accessible from both directions which will have four Level III and two Level II stations). When completed, the project will strategically place electric vehicle service stations at points east-west and along the north-south extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

These stations will go in as construction schedules dictate, with the renovation schedule of some rest stops coming into play.

There is no particular type specified in the contract -- we’re thinking it will be a combination of all on the market, providing the best coverage for the drivers on the Turnpike.

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Apparently, the Car Charging Group will be providing the charging equipment and services.

The PA Turnpike press release is here: http://www.paturnpike.com/press/2013/20130423123241.htm

Thank you, Oakleaf, for that post. I commute daily from KOP to Telford so I have probably seen you.
Multiple level 3s at each plaza will allay my fear that a charger won't be available. I will be able to go to Lancaster or Allentown and back with one stop to charge. I can see using them as many as 4 or 5 times a year. I hope the investment proves to be worthwhile.

Hi gary - no problem, actually have been intending to pass that info on for a while now, but kept forgetting to.

I'll be on the lookout for you then - what color? I usually head south via 309 & Countyline Rd, and so far I haven't seen any other Leafs on my daily commute until I get down around Ivyland / Warminster area.

We would probably use these new chargers about every other month or so - my guess is it wouldn't be to take on a full charge, probably just enough to get home or to a destination where we would then spend some time fully recharging. We would probably use them more if there was a service plaza between the NE Extension and NJ as we travel that direction more than west towards the King of Prussia service plaza.

Agree that L2 isn't very practical in this case (although more practical than running out of charge!).

My biggest concern is that they (at least as of late February) hadn't yet decided on the type of L3 charger and would feel that they should wait to install the new SAE combo plug.

Regardless of the type, just the fact of installation of Level III's will spur more QC's to be sold as options, and that should lead to more QC stations popping up. To my (admittedly limited)knowledge, these are the first Level III's in PA, I think. Putting them on the Turnpike is the best place to do so to garner support for EV's in general. As I mentioned earlier, I don't even have a QC option on my Mitsubishi, which is leased and will be turned in when the lease is up. But I love EV driving and certainly hope to get another EV at that time. When I do, I can't imagine not having a QC port. That, along with the larger 6 KW charger, would make a difference in my driving habits. Right now I cannot take my "I" to the Phila airport. It's 44 miles from my home to the airport, and even if they had Level II charging there I'd have to wait at least 2-3 hours(and more liekly close to 4 hours) to get enough range to comfortably get back home, considering I-95 or the Blue Route as my highways of choice. With an increased on board charger I'd get 15-20 miles in possibly 1 hour and certainly in 90 minutes. A Level III charger there would make it entirely doable, as I have never gotten out of there to pick someone up in less than 30 minutes(there goes my 80% charge). This is actually pretty exciting, to know that things are moving in the right direction. Since I am leasing and am watching my overall mileage, I shouldn't be too worked up about adding to my driving range, but in the future I will buy and then it makes a big difference.

Lou

Good points Lou - it is certainly a "chicken or the egg" sort of dilemma - greater EV utilization results from more QC's being available, but the justification for greater numbers of QC's being installed isn't present until there is a greater number of EV's being driven.

However, being just a little bit "selfish", my desire of course is for the L3 QC's to be CHAdeMO compatible so we can use them with our Leaf.

A location such as the PA Turnpike is a great first step as it's the spot most likely to see the greatest possible concentration of EV's in need of a rapid charge at the moment.

I'm actually somewhat surprised not to see a similar infrastructure going up along the NJ Turnpike / GS Parkway / Rt. 1, especially in the heavily populated areas.

Oakleaf - I work at Fresco and my Leaf is red. I get off the NEX at Lansdale and take back roads up to Telford, so I guess that we don't see each other. I pass a black Leaf on Wambold fairly regularly in the morning, I thought that might have been you.

There is another issue with long trips on the turnpike. Even if you can go 60 or more miles on a charge, the plazas aren't that far apart. There is not enough range to skip a plaza and go to the next one, so you would have to stop and charge even more often than your range would otherwise permit. I think trips on the turnpike are still limited to single charge range. In my situation, I would get better use from QCs on roads like 309 or 202.

Gary - that's probably why we haven't crossed paths yet (we're a red Leaf as well). I've also seen a black leaf up in that same area when we're over that direction on the weekends.

When we decided to get a Leaf, it was based on an assessment that we needed a vehicle that would be a reliable, cost effective commuter car. After having driven the Leaf now for the past few months, I can certainly say it will perform this task, even with battery degradation in the cold of winter (for me, that's ~40 miles round trip, 35 mph avg speed, lots of stop-and-go traffic and lights, around 0°F worst case for a week or two in the winter, charging only at home).

The Leaf satisfies 100% of our daily commuter needs, and even 95% of all the other driving our family of 4 does.

The trouble is, having driven an electric vehicle, and really loving the overall experience, it's difficult to not be able to drive it that remaining 5%!

Long distance travel (and that's a relative term isn't it!) I think is out of the realm of practicality for BEV's like the Leaf given the current stage of battery technology. Having options to extend the vehicles range somewhat with QC's allows us to eke out another percentage point or two, but I'm not sure we'll get to the same level of range as exists currently with ICE vehicles any time soon - at least not without some new energy device such as a "Mr. Fusion".

Aside from maybe extending the effective practical range of the Leaf to 100-120 miles, to me, QC's are most welcome as relief to range anxiety when trying to push beyond that 95% utilization rate.

Not having had any experience with QC use, I could be totally (but happily!) wrong about this expectation.

Given the volume of traffic on 309 and 202, a QC would probably do well along those routes. Looking at the flow of traffic (although it wouldn't do me any good) a QC right off 309 in Telford/Souderton would be a good location to stop for those folks commuting to/from Allentown and the NE Philadelphia area. The PP&L depo right off 309 would seem a good infrastructure spot to me, although there are lots of places in Souderton for a cup of coffee or a quick meal while charging as well. I'm not as familiar with the 202 traffic flow, but with the new 202 parkway addition there's probably even more folks on that road than before.

Oakmont Plum (Milepost 49.3 Eastbound)
New Stanton (Milepost 77.6 Westbound)
North Somerset (Milepost 112.3 Westbound)
South Somerset (Milepost 112.3 Eastbound)
North Midway (Milepost 147.3 Westbound)
South Midway (Milepost 147.3 Eastbound) Now Open!
Sideling Hill (Milepost 172.3 Westbound and Eastbound)
Blue Mountain (Milepost 202.5 Westbound)
Cumberland Valley (Milepost 219.1 Eastbound)
Highspire (Milepost 249.7 Eastbound) Now Open!
Lawn (Milepost 258.8 Westbound)
Bowmansville (Milepost 289.9 Eastboud)
Peter J. Camiel (Milepost 304.8 Westbound)
Valley Forge (Milepost 324.6 Eastbound)
King of Prussia (Milepost 328.4 Westbound)
Allentown (Milepost 55.9 Northbound and Southbound)
Hickory Run (Milepost 86.1 Northbound and Southbound)


Note that "Car Charging Group" has a fee of 0.49 cents kw/h. Location Location Location.

Starting with a pair on either side of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia is a good plan for extending the range out from the city.

It won't get you cross country until they have them at all 17 plazas. Even then you would want to drive 55-60 and stop at every single plaza. Could large scale BEV adoption lead to economic boost to small town America as people get off (or stay off) the highway and stop at places with lvl 2 stations? Will turnpikes need to complete for traffic?

Great topic. And great interest to me.

Interestingly I spoke with a Sales Director @ Blink about the potential of having either the Level 2 or QC installed in a Public Library parking lot of which I am on the board of directors.

While it does seem promising, it is apparently approx $15k for a QX and $5k for a Level 2. (This is taking advantage of all discounts and federal bumps that are part of their initial rollout.)

I happen to agree with many of you... Level 2 on the turnpike, while a huge step in the right direction, is not a game changer. Nobody is going to drive for 80 miles, stop for 4hrs to charge, and then continue on. But, a 20 minute lunch break is certainly acceptable.

One step at a time, I guess.

In all honesty, if I won the lottery, I'd install QCs all over the place.

I doubt very many people would be willing to spend the time necessary to do that. Most will not be willing to undertake trips like that, except as an "adventure", until BEV range greatly improves...

When I was growing up on the east coast we took many trips on the PTP and I know I'd not want to do so with anything less than a Tesla...

A QC makes it a little more tenable but practically you'd still need to stop every 50 miles or so, or drive insanely slow...

Yogi62 said:

It won't get you cross country until they have them at all 17 plazas. Even then you would want to drive 55-60 and stop at every single plaza. Could large scale BEV adoption lead to economic boost to small town America as people get off (or stay off) the highway and stop at places with lvl 2 stations? Will turnpikes need to complete for traffic?

Click to expand...

TomT said:

I doubt very many people would be willing to spend the time necessary to do that. Most will not be willing to undertake trips like that, except as an "adventure", until BEV range greatly improves...

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I totally agree, except that I don't think anyone will do it for an "adventure", either. A day of several turns driving an hour, and then stopping for a minimum of half an hour at a turnpike rest stop is more excitement than I can handle.

My Leaf is fine for 95% of my needs. If I have to go further, I switch with my wife for her 21 mpg station wagon. Many of those trips are to Allentown, where I will soon be able to drive the Leaf with one QC charge stop, which I find acceptable. But wait, at 49 cents/kwh I will still take the station wagon because it will be cheaper. So I will only use it when my wife also needs to travel that day. My Leaf will then meet 95.5% of my travel needs. I will bring gloves to use when wiping the cobwebs off of the charger. Before you get too mad at me for saying that, I am sure that in a few years battery range will improve to the point where these chargers will be a wonderful thing. I applaud the Turnpike Commission for getting them in now to promote EVs to the motoring public.

Here is an article that someone sent me,.......though I don't know anyone who could use a Level 2 charger in a productive way,....takes me 4+ hours to go from nothing to full......very confusing.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/car-charging-stations-now-available-on-pennsylvania-turnpike/25586666

Level 2 of the turnpike doesn't sound very useful. With the speeds you would have to run on the TP you would be wasting so much juice only to sit forever in a rest stop to gain it back. It would be much faster to take the slow roads and conserve than to try to run the TP with a Leaf.
Possibly the only way I can se it being real useful is on a shorter trip if you travel overnight with less traffic, keep the speed a little low and hit the rest stop tired and sleep through the night. It should only take six nights to cross the state that way. :roll:

Not a revelation. but while gas stations are placed on the way TO something, EV charging should be placed AT something. If the TP commission wanted to do something useful maybe they should have partnered with attractions at each exit. That would give you a reason to take the TP to get somewhere.

I called the TP Commission today and talked to a man named Carl. I got his number from their web site. He said ALL plazas will have level 2 and level 3 chargers. It sound like they will each have 2 level three chargers except the plazas that are combined with both directions using one plaza, they will have four level 3. He said they were probably pushing to have the L2s opened for Earth Day and that they will come back and add the L3s soon.
I'm not sure what he said for a time frame on this , but it was sooner rather than later.

Oakleaf:

Travelling s/b on Rte 309, just past Rte 202 is Montgomeryville Nissan. They have Level II but not Level III. However, if Nissan continues to push for more Level II installation at their dealerships, we might see one there before too long. It's actually in a pretty good spot for many people, near the Montgomery Mall, and with a QC, one could safely drive to Allentown, then head back south onto Rte 309 for another QC on the return trip into the city(as an example). Let's see what happens if/when Nissan debuts a LEAF with the increased battery, say a 36 KW unit. I could see someone comfortably driving 200 miles in a day then.

Lou

Metalman said:

I called the TP Commission today and talked to a man named Carl. I got his number from their web site. He said ALL plazas will have level 2 and level 3 chargers. It sound like they will each have 2 level three chargers except the plazas that are combined with both directions using one plaza, they will have four level 3. He said they were probably pushing to have the L2s opened for Earth Day and that they will come back and add the L3s soon.
I'm not sure what he said for a time frame on this , but it was sooner rather than later.

Click to expand...

I called Today as well, but had to leave a message.
IMHO, Level II in Turnpike rest areas is a nice token move, but essentially useless.
Now DCQC is another story.