Frustrating North Florida dealers

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

fsu77gt

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
45
Location
Tallahassee, FL
There is a huge difference in "dealer fees" in North Florida, ranging from a low of $289 (actually Dothan AL) to a high of $599 at Homosassa Springs (which when I squawked, they said they might cut off $200). Some of the dealers I contacted cannot guarantee more fees when a person comes to pick up their Leaf! This seems like guaranteed orphan Leafs, once folks find out what it's going to cost with tax, tag, title, destination fee of about $850, AND MSRP. The dealers would not even discuss meeting the lowest dealer fee, didn't seem like they cared at all, forget about a ZERO dealer fee. Frustrating!! I may wait for the Plug-in Prius, but I'd rather have a Leaf.
 
In central Florida my "local" dealer was talking a $799 fee
and the dealer I ordered with wasn't sure (very early on)
but now I'm hearing $1K quoted to others. I'll wait till
the deal but may just walk away.
 
Will no one rescue potential buyers from these greedy dealers? PLEASE! If you are a North Florida Nissan dealer, and you can guarantee with an email that I can order a Leaf through your dealership with a zero dealer fee, destination of $850 or less (as advertised), tax, tag and title fees as shown on the Florida DMV site and MSRP (which I know gives you at least a REASONABLE profit plus the dealer holdback of 2.8 percent!) I am your customer! They do this in California apparently, why not Florida?
 
I know some AZ posters here on the board in the beginning were ordering from CA because they couldn't find any AZ dealer who would sell below MSRP. Yes, they had to incur the shipping cost back to AZ but they still save some after the shipping cost. Eventually, one of the AZ dealers offer a discount price and when my turn comes, I was able to order from this AZ dealer for almost $1300 below MSRP.

I would suggest maybe you'd cast your net wider and try to find more remote dealers who may be willing to discount to compete against the ones in the metropolitan areas.
 
Why is it greedy when a dealer asks for $1000 over MSRP but it's OK to buy at $1000 less than MSRP?

If someone is willing to pay you $20,000 more for your house, do you take the offer that's $20,000 less? Are you being "greedy" for taking the higher offer?

The market will set the value. If someone is willing to pay what a dealer asks, then it's their prerogative. No one is forcing you to buy the car. Wait until the price comes down, then buy your Leaf.

Or buy that plug in Prius but I've got a feeling that they won't budge on price on those for while as well. Newer products always demand that those who want to get them first pay a premium.
 
Train said:
Why is it greedy when a dealer asks for $1000 over MSRP but it's OK to buy at $1000 less than MSRP?

If someone is willing to pay you $20,000 more for your house, do you take the offer that's $20,000 less? Are you being "greedy" for taking the higher offer?

The market will set the value. If someone is willing to pay what a dealer asks, then it's their prerogative. No one is forcing you to buy the car. Wait until the price comes down, then buy your Leaf.

Or buy that plug in Prius but I've got a feeling that they won't budge on price on those for while as well. Newer products always demand that those who want to get them first pay a premium.

and that slows down the adoption of something that can lead to a better future for all.
but hey, grub up that almighty buck every way you can... no matter what.
If it's good enough for corporations then it's good enough for everyone.
Like it makes sense for CEO's to be paid obscene salaries and bonuses.
No wonder we can't compete with China!
 
I gotta ask, has the ordering process changed from the Tier1 states' approach of online order now to an allotment system now where dealers only get a certain numbers of cars assigned to them? I heard rumors that the ordering model has changed to an allotment system now.

If this is true, then I think that is the root of the problem that leads to price gouging. With the original online order model, buyers have the leverage to pick and choose dealers to order from and dealers don't have any allotment. So a dealer who price gouges would have no car coming in to them because nobody would order from them. Meanwhile, a dealer who gave discount got as many cars coming in to them as possible, based on the amount of orders buyers placed with them. So the incentive was to give the discount to lure as many buyers in as possible, and basically "steal" buyers from other dealerships local/closers to those buyers.

If the Tier2 ordering process is still the same as the Tier1 ordering process (online), I would encourage everyone to hold out from ordering at your local dealers who price gouges and expand your search to further away dealerships in order to promote competition and put pressure on your local dealers to stick with MSRP.

But if the Tier2 ordering process is based on the traditional allotment approach now, then I'd have to say sorry, but the upper hand has now been given back to the dealers and supply/demand becomes the rule.
 
Volusiano said:
I gotta ask, has the ordering process changed from the Tier1 states' approach of online order now to an allotment system now where dealers only get a certain numbers of cars assigned to them? I heard rumors that the ordering model has changed to an allotment system now.

If this is true, then I think that is the root of the problem that leads to price gouging. With the original online order model, buyers have the leverage to pick and choose dealers to order from and dealers don't have any allotment. So a dealer who price gouges would have no car coming in to them because nobody would order from them. Meanwhile, a dealer who gave discount got as many cars coming in to them as possible, based on the amount of orders buyers placed with them. So the incentive was to give the discount to lure as many buyers in as possible, and basically "steal" buyers from other dealerships local/closers to those buyers.

If the Tier2 ordering process is still the same as the Tier1 ordering process (online), I would encourage everyone to hold out from ordering at your local dealers who price gouges and expand your search to further away dealerships in order to promote competition and put pressure on your local dealers to stick with MSRP.

But if the Tier2 ordering process is based on the traditional allotment approach now, then I'd have to say sorry, but the upper hand has now been given back to the dealers and supply/demand becomes the rule.

The process is the same. All LEAF dealers have had allotments since October, its just that when only Tier1 dealers could sell, the allotments were high enough that they were rarely hit. Now that they're spreading the same supply across Tier1 and Tier2 the allotments are small for Tier2 and greatly reduced for Tier1. At least 1 of the CA dealers offering discounts said they may have to stop offering them because their new allotment prevents them from doing enough volume.
 
rnkepler said:
The process is the same. All LEAF dealers have had allotments since October, its just that when only Tier1 dealers could sell, the allotments were high enough that they were rarely hit. Now that they're spreading the same supply across Tier1 and Tier2 the allotments are small for Tier2 and greatly reduced for Tier1. At least 1 of the CA dealers offering discounts said they may have to stop offering them because their new allotment prevents them from doing enough volume.
Well, then it is the same, but it's also not.

If dealers had such a high allotment before that they were rarely hit, then it's almost the same as having no allotment and they could sell as many as they could attract buyers. Therefore they need to compete and discount to attract the most buyers to hit their high allotment. In this scenario supply and demand didn't exist because supply almost seemed limitless.

In the new scenario, allotment is greatly reduced, so supply is now much more limited from the dealers' perspective while demand is still high, so no wonder nobody wants to discount anymore.
 
Train said:
Why is it greedy when a dealer asks for $1000 over MSRP but it's OK to buy at $1000 less than MSRP?

If someone is willing to pay you $20,000 more for your house, do you take the offer that's $20,000 less? Are you being "greedy" for taking the higher offer?

The market will set the value. If someone is willing to pay what a dealer asks, then it's their prerogative. No one is forcing you to buy the car. Wait until the price comes down, then buy your Leaf.

Or buy that plug in Prius but I've got a feeling that they won't budge on price on those for while as well. Newer products always demand that those who want to get them first pay a premium.


IMHO - if $20000 more for my house is unreasonable and the house is not worth that much, YES! And GREED is exactly why we had the recent housing/mortgage bust!!
 
I just went through this dealer fee BS on another car purchase. Almost everyone charges these junk fees, so your only choices are to either know that going in and negotiate on the bottom line price, or stay away from car dealers. From a personal finance perspective the latter is always the better option, but the reality of needing transportation sometimes prevails.

In my experience better deals/discounts can always be had on models that are in large supply, if the supply is tight (like the Leaf) get ready to pay through the nose on price and whatever junk fees they want to stick you with. As long as a dealer thinks they can sell for more to somebody else the have no use for you. Remember if at least three dealers don't let you walk out the door you aren't doing it right.

I'm prepared for the likelihood that the dealer will try to screw me at the last minute and I'll wind up bestowing them with an unwarranted gift of an orphan Leaf. I'm just not going to lose any sleep over it though, for me the advancement of the technology happens whether I buy the car or somebody else does. Given that the Leaf is a bad deal financially I'm OK letting someone else further the EV cause and take the hit in the pocketbook.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I just went through this dealer fee BS on another car purchase. Almost everyone charges these junk fees, so your only choices are to either know that going in and negotiate on the bottom line price, or stay away from car dealers. From a personal finance perspective the latter is always the better option, but the reality of needing transportation sometimes prevails.

In my experience better deals/discounts can always be had on models that are in large supply, if the supply is tight (like the Leaf) get ready to pay through the nose on price and whatever junk fees they want to stick you with. As long as a dealer thinks they can sell for more to somebody else the have no use for you. Remember if at least three dealers don't let you walk out the door you aren't doing it right.

I'm prepared for the likelihood that the dealer will try to screw me at the last minute and I'll wind up bestowing them with an unwarranted gift of an orphan Leaf. I'm just not going to lose any sleep over it though, for me the advancement of the technology happens whether I buy the car or somebody else does. Given that the Leaf is a bad deal financially I'm OK letting someone else further the EV cause and take the hit in the pocketbook.


Very good points - I like the way you think, thanks very much!
 
Same reason that I have a deposit on the I Miev.... if the
cost gets too crazy for the Leaf I'll just wait a little longer
and see how it goes with the Mitsu "I".
 
Train said:
Why is it greedy when a dealer asks for $1000 over MSRP but it's OK to buy at $1000 less than MSRP?

If someone is willing to pay you $20,000 more for your house, do you take the offer that's $20,000 less? Are you being "greedy" for taking the higher offer?

The market will set the value. If someone is willing to pay what a dealer asks, then it's their prerogative. No one is forcing you to buy the car. Wait until the price comes down, then buy your Leaf.

Or buy that plug in Prius but I've got a feeling that they won't budge on price on those for while as well. Newer products always demand that those who want to get them first pay a premium.

another greed head pimping for the car dealers.
 
and that slows down the adoption of something that can lead to a better future for all.
but hey, grub up that almighty buck every way you can... no matter what.
If it's good enough for corporations then it's good enough for everyone.
Like it makes sense for CEO's to be paid obscene salaries and bonuses.
No wonder we can't compete with China!

Products will be "adopted" based on their own merits.

This isn't utopia. Ideas for a better future can be argued ad infinitum. This is a car. You don't have to buy the car. If you want the car bad enough, you have to pay the price. Hot models always go for a premium. If they aren't in demand, prices will fall. Go to a different dealer. You're not entitled to the car.

The entire concept of going into business is to make a profit. Unless you rely on donations (like a charitable non profit) if you don't make a profit, you can't stay in business. If you can't stay in business, you can't provide jobs which allow people to buy products. Like a Leaf.

Who is the arbiter of how much profit is "reasonable?" If one were to resell their Leaf, they would like to sell it for the highest price someone will pay. Let's be consistent, since you don't want to pay higher than MSRP. I would imagine you certainly wouldn't think of buying it for less than MSRP, right?
 
another greed head pimping for the car dealers.

You can call names if you wish. Are the A list actors in Hollywood greedy? They could take $3 million per movie instead of $20 million. Isn't that greedy?
 
Train said:
You can call names if you wish. Are the A list actors in Hollywood greedy? They could take $3 million per movie instead of $20 million. Isn't that greedy?

greedhead attempts to explain their greed and gouging (in a system set up by Nissan to avoid it) are tranparent political bull.
Attempts to justify this sort of gimme gimme gimme with bows to "the marketplace" doesnt obviate that it is greed.

you may think greed is a societal inevitability, good ethics, or how you want to live your life. But is is still greed.

The whole point of the system set up by Nissan for Leaf ordering took account of dealer greed and gouging and sought to avoid it.
It works fine, for the most part, here in CA. with some notable exceptions and for some dealers working orphans.
 
Unless the process has changed, a dealer is not allowed to raise the price of the car after it is ordered. That includes dealer fees. The final price from a dealer is set during RAQ (Request a Quote). You either accept it or tell the dealer to go fish. Accepting the quote is supposed to be binding. Not "binding-until-we-want-to-add-random-fees".
 
fsu77gt said:
There is a huge difference in "dealer fees" in North Florida, ranging from a low of $289 (actually Dothan AL) to a high of $599 at Homosassa Springs (which when I squawked, they said they might cut off $200). Some of the dealers I contacted cannot guarantee more fees when a person comes to pick up their Leaf! This seems like guaranteed orphan Leafs, once folks find out what it's going to cost with tax, tag, title, destination fee of about $850, AND MSRP. The dealers would not even discuss meeting the lowest dealer fee, didn't seem like they cared at all, forget about a ZERO dealer fee. Frustrating!! I may wait for the Plug-in Prius, but I'd rather have a Leaf.

by dealer fees--are you talking orphans or add-on fees for Leafs ordered through Nissan?
 
greedhead attempts to explain their greed and gouging (in a system set up by Nissan to avoid it) are tranparent political bull.
Attempts to justify this sort of gimme gimme gimme with bows to "the marketplace" doesnt obviate that it is greed.

you may think greed is a societal inevitability, good ethics, or how you want to live your life. But is is still greed.

The whole point of the system set up by Nissan for Leaf ordering took account of dealer greed and gouging and sought to avoid it.
It works fine, for the most part, here in CA. with some notable exceptions and for some dealers working orphans.

So are A list actors greedy? Are professional athletes? Nancy Pelosi's husband? The CEO of NIssan made $10 million dollars in 2009. Isn't he greedy?

So what is the line of demarcation for greed? What's the difference between "reasonable" profit and greed?

Did you spend your extra money for a non essential item, product, and service or did you give the rest of your paycheck to a homeless shelter? Isn't it greedy not to give the rest to someone in need?
 
Back
Top