WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:51 pm

Hello,

Wife and I live in Louisville, Colorado and are seriously considering a purchase of the 2013 Leaf. After a great deal of research online and reading these boards for a few weeks, we're confident it will meet our needs for a daily commuter to replace my 2001 Saturn sedan.

Looking at our 2011 and 2012 tax returns, I believe we will qualify for the full federal tax credit of $7,500, or close to it. However, I am concerned about the State's Innovative Vehicle tax credit. Logic would hold that if the DOR believes the 2012 leaf was $13,000 more than their un-named comparable ICE and the price of the Leaf has dropped roughly $6,000 for 2013, then I'm worried that the state credit could be 0 or close to it after you subtract out the Federal tax credit ($13,000 - $6,000 - $7500).

Does anyone on here know when the DOR will release the Leaf credit for 2013 or have any idea what the amount will be? Seems to me they should release a number shortly after Nissan rolls out their pricing and features, so people can make an informed decision before buying/leasing.

Our decision to buy or not buy will probably come down to what the state is offering (or not offering) for a credit. It's great that Nissan is producing the Leaf for less to begin with, but for us to justify the cost, we our going to need total credits to be in the $10,000-$12,000 range.

Really hope Colorado comes through because we have really psyched ourselves up to own and drive one of these cars and help get this technology off the ground. And, before anyone asks, we are not really interested in leasing.

Would also be interested in hearing how much some Colorado owners paid to purchase and install their level 2 home docking stations.

Thanks in advance for any knowledge you can share. This is a great forum and community with a ton of useful information.
Last edited by WMTribe90 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrIanB
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:29 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2012
Leaf Number: 0870
Location: Cedar Park, Texas

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:00 pm

You can lease the car, make a couple of payments, come back to dealer and redo paper work for purchase. This way you get the $7500 upfront as part of lease down payment and you don't have to worry at the end of your having tax issues and not get the full amount.

Good luck and let's us know the outcome.

Ian B

WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:19 pm

MrIanB wrote:You can lease the car, make a couple of payments, come back to dealer and redo paper work for purchase. This way you get the $7500 upfront as part of lease down payment and you don't have to worry at the end of your having tax issues and not get the full amount.

Good luck and let's us know the outcome.

Ian B


Thanks for the suggestion. As mentioned, we're fairly confident that our federal tax liability to ensure we'll get the full federal tax credit. Primarily concerned with what CO is going to offer in 2013 for the Innovative Vehicle Tax credit.

ERG4ALL
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:17 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000404
Location: Phoenix/Show Low AZ

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:57 am

Our LEAF saves us about $200 per month so you might want to take that into consideration regardless of how CO treats it. Also, if you are 55 or over, you might consider withdrawing from your IRA or 401k (assuming you have one) with no penalty. It would add to your taxable income so you would be assured you can take advantage of the full $7,500 tax credit.
Reserved 4/20/10, Ocean Blue Ordered SL 9/30/10, ESVE Installed 11/22/10, Delivered March 8th, 2011.

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:13 am

ERG4ALL wrote:Our LEAF saves us about $200 per month so you might want to take that into consideration regardless of how CO treats it. Also, if you are 55 or over, you might consider withdrawing from your IRA or 401k (assuming you have one) with no penalty. It would add to your taxable income so you would be assured you can take advantage of the full $7,500 tax credit.


you can get more bang for the withdrawal buck by tranferring IRA to a ROTH.
no penalty, no matter the age, i believe.
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edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:39 am

WMTribe90 wrote:
MrIanB wrote:You can lease the car, make a couple of payments, come back to dealer and redo paper work for purchase. This way you get the $7500 upfront as part of lease down payment and you don't have to worry at the end of your having tax issues and not get the full amount.

Good luck and let's us know the outcome.

Ian B


Thanks for the suggestion. As mentioned, we're fairly confident that our federal tax liability to ensure we'll get the full federal tax credit. Primarily concerned with what CO is going to offer in 2013 for the Innovative Vehicle Tax credit.


I leased-then-bought and was happy with my decision, but this raised my total costs by a few? hundred bucks (IIRC) over a direct purchase, due to various lease fees and other factors.

So IF you are fairly sure you want to own, and IF you are confident of getting the full TC, you might want to look into exactly what any higher cost of lease-to-buy could be for you.
no condition is permanent

Viktor
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:56 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2012
Location: Centennial, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:03 pm

Look for a separate discussian Lease vs Buy. Majority agreed that you should lease instead of buying - especially since we do have great lease deals in CO. That's my first lease, and I would agree with you 100% about buying any other car, but not electric. As far as CO goes - apparently you can get partial state credit while leasing it - rumor is - around 2k
(don't hold me accountable). And Nissan will pass on 7.5k of federal rebate to you. Win-win for the lease.

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dgpcolorado
Posts: 3068
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:19 pm

WMTribe90, I've been wondering the same thing about the Colorado tax credit on the 2013 models. The short answer is that we don't know and that the way that the DOR calculates the credit is completely arbitrary. For example, they use the same "Incremental Price Difference" numbers for both the 2011 and 2012 years and the SV and SL models despite significant price differences. Will they continue to use the same numbers for the 2013s? I have no idea.

You could try to contact them but if you do be prepared to be stonewalled even after several rounds of back-and-forth. In my view the numbers they used for IPD are flat wrong but when I documented correct numbers on my tax return they just rejected it out-of-hand and changed the numbers back to their own. If I lived closer to the Front Range I would have gone through the appeals process. To me, the idea that the hybrid Volt gets the full $6000 and the LEAF gets much less is an outrage. However, if the car makes sense for your commute the exact amount of the state tax credit probably shouldn't make that much difference. And don't overlook the "fun-to-drive" factor; after driving a LEAF going back to an ICE car is a major step down.

Although you aren't interested in leasing, I wish I had because the technology is changing so rapidly and the cost of a replacement battery pack remains a complete unknown, so it is impossible to calculate the cost of ownership. But I purchased, in part because of the state tax credit, and hope the car continues to perform well. I expect to get "range envy" when longer range EVs are available for the same or less money in a few years, given my remote rural location. That's not an issue for you if your commute from Louisville is well within the range of the LEAF. (If you are going to Boulder or Longmont, no big deal. If you commute to Littleton, say, that might be a problem in winter weather.)

Like MANY others here, I used EVSEupgrade.com for my Level 2 charging at home. However, it isn't clear how well the L1 charge cable supplied with the 2013 LEAF can be upgraded. If upgrading the L1 EVSE isn't a practical solution you can buy one of the several models of EVSE at places like Home Depot for $700 to $900 and have it installed in your garage. If you are handy and your electrical panel is conveniently located it can be a DIY project. Or you can hire an electrician to run the lines and do the installation.

If your commute is short you can just charge at Level 1 (120 Volts) using the EVSE supplied with the car. That might also be an option while you get a handle on your charging needs and research Level 2 charging options. Be aware that even if you buy a 2013 LEAF with a 6 kW charger, you don't really need a Level 2 EVSE capable of 6 kW for overnight charging. The current 3.3 kW charging options are plenty fast enough for home use, so a 240 V, 16 or 20 Amp EVSE would be fine for home. The big advantage of the 6 kW charger on the 2013 LEAF is when charging away from home at Level 2. At home? Not so much.
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WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:21 pm

ERG4ALL wrote:Our LEAF saves us about $200 per month so you might want to take that into consideration regardless of how CO treats it. Also, if you are 55 or over, you might consider withdrawing from your IRA or 401k (assuming you have one) with no penalty. It would add to your taxable income so you would be assured you can take advantage of the full $7,500 tax credit.


Yep, I factored in $1,000/ yr in fuel savings in my cost of ownership calculations. Realize this might be a little on the low end, but I'm replacing my Saturn (manual) where I average about 34 mpg combined.
I'm 35, so I can't tap the 401k, but we have discussed selling a few stocks we own to ensure we max out the fed tax credit.

WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:30 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
WMTribe90 wrote:
MrIanB wrote:You can lease the car, make a couple of payments, come back to dealer and redo paper work for purchase. This way you get the $7500 upfront as part of lease down payment and you don't have to worry at the end of your having tax issues and not get the full amount.

Good luck and let's us know the outcome.

Ian B


Thanks for the suggestion. As mentioned, we're fairly confident that our federal tax liability to ensure we'll get the full federal tax credit. Primarily concerned with what CO is going to offer in 2013 for the Innovative Vehicle Tax credit.


I leased-then-bought and was happy with my decision, but this raised my total costs by a few? hundred bucks (IIRC) over a direct purchase, due to various lease fees and other factors.

So IF you are fairly sure you want to own, and IF you are confident of getting the full TC, you might want to look into exactly what any higher cost of lease-to-buy could be for you.


I hadn't considered the lease to buy option and can certainly see the benefits there. If it's a matter of a couple hundred bucks to lease until I can confirm the state tax credit that might make sense.

Does Nissan allow for extended test drives (i.e., take the car home overnight)?

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