WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Viktor wrote:Look for a separate discussian Lease vs Buy. Majority agreed that you should lease instead of buying - especially since we do have great lease deals in CO. That's my first lease, and I would agree with you 100% about buying any other car, but not electric. As far as CO goes - apparently you can get partial state credit while leasing it - rumor is - around 2k
(don't hold me accountable). And Nissan will pass on 7.5k of federal rebate to you. Win-win for the lease.


Agree, all electric vehicle is the only car that makes sense to lease. That said, the eight-year warranty against excessive battery capacity loss convinced me to go for long-term (~8 yr) ownership. My round trip commute is 34 miles, so even with lost capacity and winter conditions, it sounds like this should be achievable. At eight years, the fuel savings should even out the cost of ownership with an ICE, even with the expected higher depreciation. Anyway, that' my thinking and it's admittedly a bit of a crapshoot.

WMTribe90
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:19 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2013
Location: Louisville, CO

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:05 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:WMTribe90, I've been wondering the same thing about the Colorado tax credit on the 2013 models. The short answer is that we don't know and that the way that the DOR calculates the credit is completely arbitrary. For example, they use the same "Incremental Price Difference" numbers for both the 2011 and 2012 years and the SV and SL models despite significant price differences. Will they continue to use the same numbers for the 2013s? I have no idea.

You could try to contact them but if you do be prepared to be stonewalled even after several rounds of back-and-forth. In my view the numbers they used for IPD are flat wrong but when I documented correct numbers on my tax return they just rejected it out-of-hand and changed the numbers back to their own. If I lived closer to the Front Range I would have gone through the appeals process. To me, the idea that the hybrid Volt gets the full $6000 and the LEAF gets much less is an outrage. However, if the car makes sense for your commute the exact amount of the state tax credit probably shouldn't make that much difference. And don't overlook the "fun-to-drive" factor; after driving a LEAF going back to an ICE car is a major step down.

Although you aren't interested in leasing, I wish I had because the technology is changing so rapidly and the cost of a replacement battery pack remains a complete unknown, so it is impossible to calculate the cost of ownership. But I purchased, in part because of the state tax credit, and hope the car continues to perform well. I expect to get "range envy" when longer range EVs are available for the same or less money in a few years, given my remote rural location. That's not an issue for you if your commute from Louisville is well within the range of the LEAF. (If you are going to Boulder or Longmont, no big deal. If you commute to Littleton, say, that might be a problem in winter weather.)

Like MANY others here, I used EVSEupgrade.com for my Level 2 charging at home. However, it isn't clear how well the L1 charge cable supplied with the 2013 LEAF can be upgraded. If upgrading the L1 EVSE isn't a practical solution you can buy one of the several models of EVSE at places like Home Depot for $700 to $900 and have it installed in your garage. If you are handy and your electrical panel is conveniently located it can be a DIY project. Or you can hire an electrician to run the lines and do the installation.

If your commute is short you can just charge at Level 1 (120 Volts) using the EVSE supplied with the car. That might also be an option while you get a handle on your charging needs and research Level 2 charging options. Be aware that even if you buy a 2013 LEAF with a 6 kW charger, you don't really need a Level 2 EVSE capable of 6 kW for overnight charging. The current 3.3 kW charging options are plenty fast enough for home use, so a 240 V, 16 or 20 Amp EVSE would be fine for home. The big advantage of the 6 kW charger on the 2013 LEAF is when charging away from home at Level 2. At home? Not so much.


Good points regarding home charging. I'm leaning toward the 2013 S with the upgraded charging package. If I own the car, I would like to be able to take advantage of additional charging infrastructure as it becomes available even if I don't need 6.6 kW for home use. Figure it can't hurt potential resale value either.

I'm fairly handy, but don't mess with electrical and my electrical panel is not convenient to the garage. Do you recommend buying the charger from home depot and hiring your own electrician over going with Nissan's installation service/charger? What could I expect to pay under each scenario?

Hopefully, the arbitrary nature of DOR's IPS calculation works in my favor in 2013. If they stick to last year's formula and apply it to the 2013 MSRP, there will be no state credit. Unfortunately, in our situation, the difference between a 4,000 and 2,000 dollar credit is significant enough to price us out of the all electric market. I might give them a call to see if they can at least say WHEN they will announce credit values for 2013. I'll share anything of value here.

Thanks for all the responses.

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dgpcolorado
Posts: 3064
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:38 pm

WMTribe90 wrote:...I'm fairly handy, but don't mess with electrical and my electrical panel is not convenient to the garage. Do you recommend buying the charger from home depot and hiring your own electrician over going with Nissan's installation service/charger? What could I expect to pay under each scenario?...
Stay away from Nissan's charger installation; it is widely viewed as overpriced. You can do better yourself by buying your own EVSE and then getting estimates from local electricians to install it.

Since your commute is fairly short you could just live with the Nissan L1 EVSE supplied with the car and use a regular 120 V outlet in the garage. Thirty-four miles of range would take roughly seven to ten hours of charging at Level 1 so you could charge overnight and likely have enough range for some additional errands. However, charging at Level 1 is less efficient (means more electricity cost) and preheating doesn't work as well.

The least expensive option for Level 2 is to get the Nissan L1 upgraded, assuming it can be done (we should know soon), then have an electrician install a 240 Volt L6-20 outlet in your garage.
WMTribe90 wrote:Agree, all electric vehicle is the only car that makes sense to lease. That said, the eight-year warranty against excessive battery capacity loss convinced me to go for long-term (~8 yr) ownership. My round trip commute is 34 miles, so even with lost capacity and winter conditions, it sounds like this should be achievable. At eight years, the fuel savings should even out the cost of ownership with an ICE, even with the expected higher depreciation. Anyway, that' my thinking and it's admittedly a bit of a crapshoot.
Perhaps my information is out-of-date but my understanding is that the new capacity warranty was for five years or 60K miles, whichever comes first. And it is supposed to kick in only if the battery reaches about 70% or so. Can you still make your commute with that hit to range? Yes, it ought to be fairly easy. The eight year battery warranty is for manufacturing defects or actual failure of a cell, not capacity.

That said, it is unlikely that you will lose that much battery capacity on the Front Range. Yes, it gets fairly hot in summer for a month or two, but it is nothing whatever like what the folks in Phoenix face. The generally cool weather in Colorado for much of the year is actually good for battery longevity.

Nevertheless, I do wish that I had leased rather than purchased. Then battery capacity issues become irrelevant and a longer range EV is likely to be available on the next go-'round. Also, as longer range EVs become common the resale value of the current LEAF can be expected to fall sharply. (That's great for people buying a used LEAF for short range needs though. For example, a car for a teen driver to go to and from school.)

My 2¢.
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TonyWilliams
Posts: 10083
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
Contact: Website

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:30 pm

WMTribe90 wrote:
Viktor wrote:Look for a separate discussian Lease vs Buy. Majority agreed that you should lease instead of buying - especially since we do have great lease deals in CO. That's my first lease, and I would agree with you 100% about buying any other car, but not electric. As far as CO goes - apparently you can get partial state credit while leasing it - rumor is - around 2k
(don't hold me accountable). And Nissan will pass on 7.5k of federal rebate to you. Win-win for the lease.


Agree, all electric vehicle is the only car that makes sense to lease. That said, the eight-year warranty against excessive battery capacity loss convinced me to go for long-term (~8 yr) ownership. My round trip commute is 34 miles, so even with lost capacity and winter conditions, it sounds like this should be achievable. At eight years, the fuel savings should even out the cost of ownership with an ICE, even with the expected higher depreciation. Anyway, that' my thinking and it's admittedly a bit of a crapshoot.


We don't have the final word on the capacity warranty, but it's not 8 years.

wantonsoup
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2013
Location: Colorado

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:24 pm

So does anyone yet know what the current Colorado tax credit will be for the 2013 Leaf? I can't find this info anywhere. Thanks!

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dgpcolorado
Posts: 3064
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:06 pm

wantonsoup wrote:So does anyone yet know what the current Colorado tax credit will be for the 2013 Leaf? I can't find this info anywhere. Thanks!
The info from the DOR hasn't been updated since December:
FYI Income 67
Innovative Motor Vehicle and Alternative Fuel Vehicle Credits


Given how new the pricing is for the 2013 models it may be many months before it gets added to the document. Will they leave the tax credit the same as 2011/2012 or lower it? I have no idea, your guess is as good as mine. The DOR numbers are completely irrational.
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
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AndyLL
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 027090
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Contact: Website

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:20 am

Late to this party....

Since the 2012 tax info wasn't finalized until January of 2013 I wouldn't expect to get 2013 info anytime soon.

Since Nissan applies the full 7500 federal credit to a lease it's really hard not to recommend leasing. Add to that the likelyhood that battery technology will be much better in 2-3 years and the fact that the cold climate here in CO means (in my case) that I have to do 100% charges more then I like really adds to the advantages of leasing.

I have a SL now. If I was buying today I'd get the S. I use mine care for commuting and running around castle rock. I have no need for the Quick Charge, Navigation or faster charging.

I purchased a charger from Home Depot for about $700. Permits, breakers, wire ran me another couple hundred. So under $1000 for the charging station. The dealer recommended installation 'started' at $1400.

Love the car. We have 2. I'd buy (lease) it again in a heartbeat. Hate having to drive my accord.
WALL-E - 2012 Black Leaf SL
EVA - 2012 Cayenne Red SL
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2002 Ford F150

mgodfre3
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2013

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:21 pm

Just curious what kindof tax credits everyone got on their leafs. I am really interested in buying one, but need to convince wife of the finances on the purchase. I normally never lease but I get the sense it may be the way to go?

Reddy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:46 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:Since your commute is fairly short you could just live with the Nissan L1 EVSE supplied with the car and use a regular 120 V outlet in the garage. Thirty-four miles of range would take roughly seven to ten hours of charging at Level 1 so you could charge overnight and likely have enough range for some additional errands. However, charging at Level 1 is less efficient (means more electricity cost) and preheating doesn't work as well.

The least expensive option for Level 2 is to get the Nissan L1 upgraded, assuming it can be done (we should know soon), then have an electrician install a 240 Volt L6-20 outlet in your garage.
+1. Others have asked similar questions. L1 will work easy for 35 mi RT commute, even in winter. As long as you're parked in a garage, pre-heating with L1 works nicely (I've never been below 20 F though). If parked outside, I don't think L1 will be enough heat in the real winter. Anyway, you have lots of time to research charging stations or the EVSEUpgrade. Here are some links on L1 that may help:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506#p265550
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

wantonsoup
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2013
Location: Colorado

Re: Potential Colorado Leaf Purchaser

Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:15 pm

I've had a Leaf for a week and only used the L1 110v charger thus far. Charge all night, never had a problem yet. Done about 500 miles in a week.

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