hanz64
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:05 am
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006739
Location: Richardson, TX

Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:02 pm

We are getting a house near Park City, Utah and I wonder if it would be worth the effort to use my Leaf there. I have been driving it for two winters in Texas and I have noticed that when we run the heater the range is drastically reduced (even with the Texas mild winters). So in a colder and more mountainous area like the Park City area I suppose that the range could be so limited that the Leaf might not be a useful car.

Also there does not seem to be a lot of charging stations in Park City. I have only found one so far.

Does anyone have a comment on this?
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RonDawg
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Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:06 pm

How usable it will be is going to depend on many factors, the most important one being how much driving do you expect to get out of it between charging sessions (especially if you're only limited to 120 volt outlets). If you expect the car to stay just in-town it shouldn't be a problem, but don't expect to be able to to SLC-Park City round trip everyday in the winter on a single charge.

Another one is how many bars have you lost so far, since you have a 2011 model?

Take your winter numbers in Texas and perhaps cut that in half to account for terrain, increased rolling resistance due to snow on the roads, and increased heater usage, and see if that is doable for you.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

KJD
Posts: 1348
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:06 am
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Leaf Number: 15656
Location: SLC, UT
Contact: Website

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:26 pm

hanz64 wrote:We are getting a house near Park City, Utah and I wonder if it would be worth the effort to use my Leaf there. I have been driving it for two winters in Texas and I have noticed that when we run the heater the range is drastically reduced (even with the Texas mild winters). So in a colder and more mountainous area like the Park City area I suppose that the range could be so limited that the Leaf might not be a useful car.
Also there does not seem to be a lot of charging stations in Park City. I have only found one so far.
Does anyone have a comment on this?

My LEAF has just over 11,000 miles on it and we have been to Park City many times.

Would you like to go with me to visit the mayor of Park City and talk about the lack of charge stations in that great town ?
2012 SL Delivered 12/08/2011
Sold 05/12/2015
2012 Tesla Model S 85

hanz64
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:05 am
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006739
Location: Richardson, TX

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:49 pm

RonDawg wrote:How usable it will be is going to depend on many factors, the most important one being how much driving do you expect to get out of it between charging sessions (especially if you're only limited to 120 volt outlets). If you expect the car to stay just in-town it shouldn't be a problem, but don't expect to be able to to SLC-Park City round trip everyday in the winter on a single charge.

Another one is how many bars have you lost so far, since you have a 2011 model?

Take your winter numbers in Texas and perhaps cut that in half to account for terrain, increased rolling resistance due to snow on the roads, and increased heater usage, and see if that is doable for you.


Yes, this is what worries me. I agree with you that I probably have to expect a 50% reduction in range due to the cold climate and the terrain. Our home is about 10 miles outside of Park City. And I have lost quite a few bars since the car was new. Now the car reports about 65-70 miles range when it is charged to 80%. It used to report 90+ miles at the 80% charge a year ago.

So in the winter conditions I would only have a 30-35 mile range. And if I can't charge it in Park City during the day, it will be close call to make it back home. It means that I can only travel about 15 miles from my home before I have to turn around. That is quite a dilemma.

I assume that in the summer it would work better, but it is hard to to justify having to have two vehicles; one for the summer and another for the winter.

I wouldn't mind scheduling a visit with mayor of Park City. I have already called the city and asked them about their EV charging plans. They said that there has been some talk about it, but they don't have any definite plans. They claim that they have such limited parking space as is so they find it hard to dedicate some parking spaces for EVs.
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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
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Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:13 pm

hanz64 wrote:And I have lost quite a few bars since the car was new. Now the car reports about 65-70 miles range when it is charged to 80%. It used to report 90+ miles at the 80% charge a year ago.
Say what? I wasn't aware that anyone had lost more than three capacity bars. How many do you have (the skinny bars at the far right edge of the dash, including the two red ones at the bottom)?

I don't think we really care what the lying GuessOMeter says. How many miles can you drive from 80% to Low Battery Warning? Your real range is how far you can drive from 100% to Very Low Battery Warning. I agree that you don't want to let the battery stay at 100% for very long, but that doesn't mean you can't take it to that level before using it.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

hanz64
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:05 am
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006739
Location: Richardson, TX

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:48 pm

planet4ever wrote:
hanz64 wrote:And I have lost quite a few bars since the car was new. Now the car reports about 65-70 miles range when it is charged to 80%. It used to report 90+ miles at the 80% charge a year ago.
Say what? I wasn't aware that anyone had lost more than three capacity bars. How many do you have (the skinny bars at the far right edge of the dash, including the two red ones at the bottom)?

I don't think we really care what the lying GuessOMeter says. How many miles can you drive from 80% to Low Battery Warning? Your real range is how far you can drive from 100% to Very Low Battery Warning. I agree that you don't want to let the battery stay at 100% for very long, but that doesn't mean you can't take it to that level before using it.

Ray


The car is charging right now, but I guess I should rephrase my previous post. I think I still have as many bars as I have always had when I charge it to 80%. It is just the GuessOMeter that has changed and is now displaying a lower number. But I think the GuessOMeter is somewhat accurate. I used to be able to drive to the DFW airport and back home without charging. But I can no longer do that without getting to a lower range than 10 miles. The airport is 35 miles from the house. So that is a 70 mile round-trip, which is mostly highway miles. I usually try to keep the speed below 60 mph on the highway. I can't go much slower than that since the speed limit is 70 mph and cars will just be flying by me if I slow down any further. The DFW area is almost flat. Summit county in Utah is not. So I am skeptical.

I suppose I could always try to use the Leaf in the Park City area and charge it to 100% most of the time in the winter. If I see that the range is just inadequate I could trade the car at that time.

Does anyone have a comment about how the Leaf handles in snow?
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KJD
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Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:56 pm

There is nothing wrong with charging to 100% just before you drive the car. Make use of the timers with only the end time set.

The traction control on the LEAF is very good. The ecrapia tires are very bad in the snow. Buy a set of aggressive snow tires and it will surprise you.

Ignore the GOM and buy yourself a GID meter.
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cwerdna
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:05 pm

hanz64 wrote:
planet4ever wrote:
hanz64 wrote:And I have lost quite a few bars since the car was new. Now the car reports about 65-70 miles range when it is charged to 80%. It used to report 90+ miles at the 80% charge a year ago.
Say what? I wasn't aware that anyone had lost more than three capacity bars. How many do you have (the skinny bars at the far right edge of the dash, including the two red ones at the bottom)?

The car is charging right now, but I guess I should rephrase my previous post. I think I still have as many bars as I have always had when I charge it to 80%.

As others have said, forget the GOM. We really would like to know how many capacity bars have been lost. See wiki/index.php?title=File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg for an example of 3 capacity bars lost and what you should be counting.

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
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Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:42 pm

The weight distribution of the LEAF, owing to the placement of the battery pack, is very good for stability and handling on mountain roads and slippery conditions. The relatively generous ground clearance is also a plus in snow.

As a mountain car, a LEAF can work quite well as long as the range is adequate for one's needs. As a rough rule of thumb, when climbing a mountain, expect to use an additional bar of charge for every 1000' climbed. Whenever we climb the 5000' from the valley below our mountain range, we use climate control very sparingly and drive slowly in order to save energy. Driving back and forth between nearby mountain towns where the elevation changes are more like 1000'-2000', however, we heat the car as much as we please (we almost never use air conditioning up here) and feel free to zip around.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

Ogi
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Re: Is a Leaf usable in Park City, Utah?

Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:44 am

The Leaf is the 10th best selling car model in Norway, which is as mountainous as Utah while being colder having more snow. I wouldnt stress about it. You'll have shorter range when the temperatures are freezing, but even at -10 centigrade my Leaf has been more than good enough to get me though all my daily routines. In the summer I'd charge it every 2-2.5 days. In the winter I charge every night just to be safe, but could get a couple days out of it.

Yes, it helps to have chargers around, but that's more a matter of flexibility - the range on the car can get you around and back home every night. You might have to change your driving style a bit and not be so heavy on the accelerator, but otherwise fine.

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