Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

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jkenny23 said:
You can do some reading about cell balancing for why this wouldn't really work to increase range/capacity, the gist is the weaker cells will reach "full" first and signal the end of charge/discharge before the stronger cells and eliminate any benefit.
Thanks, that makes sense already. So it'll be all or nothing in a few years' time.
 
Feng said:
I'm curious to know: Any harm in swapping only a few of the modules out rather than the whole pack? Eg, suppose I don't want to spend so much but want a range boost, could I go halves on a salvage pack with a fellow LEAF owner?
Hi Feng,
That is why LeafSpy is so useful.
Look at the cell balance when the pack is full (SoC near 90%) and again when the pack is empty (SoC near 20%)
You will see that the average cell voltage changes from about 4.1V down to about 3.7V and the difference between modules is typically around 20mV, should be less than 100mV anyway.
But if you find a cell that is high when the pack is full and that is (extremely) low when the pack is empty,
that is a cell with lower capacity than all the others. If you find that situation, it makes sense to replace just the module containing that cell to increase the capacity of the whole pack, because the capacity of the whole pack depends on the lowest capacity cell, because all cells are wired in series.
Most packs that I see have very similar degradation between cells, they stay pretty good "together" at low and high State of Charge (SoC) so there is no point in replacing half the pack.
To compare it with another similar example:
if you need to hoist something with a rope and you have two short ropes, each rated for 1000 pounds and you need to tie the two ropes after each other to get the length you need, it does not make sense to replace one rope with a stronger one as the second rope will still limit at 1000 pounds, only if you replace both with a stronger rope will you be able to hoist more weight, because the ropes are in series so the weaker one determines the strength of the total.
If however you find one rope deteriorated more than the other (like finding a weak cell in the pack) then it makes sense to replace that only.
Initial problems that were quoted where a single module was replaced were due to one failing cell in the pack, so replacement brought the entire pack back to original capacity. The complaint was that the usable range was suddenly half the original range. This matches the situation of a single cell failing, because a module for a 24kWh pack actually consists of 4 pouches (cells) which are 2-by-2 in parallel and the two pairs are in series. Each pouch has 32Ah capacity at 4V so the capacity is doubled from the parallel connection to give 64Ah capacity and the two cell pairs in series add the two cell voltages, so 4+4= 8V for a module.
Losing a single pouch in a module, reduces the capacity to 32Ah so the total pack capacity (range) is suddenly half the normal.
This would be similar to half the strands of one rope breaking for the example of hoisting: the remaining half of the strands can only carry half the original weight. The weakest link determines the strength of the total.
 
VitaminJ said:
How much would you estimate the battery weighs? Is it really 600 lbs as rumored? It looks like you were able to handle it yourself ok.
Most my time is spent working on the wiring of the modules, but what is not so clear (unless you find the right frames in the video) is that I have a helper to carry the stacks.
The weight of the stacks is just over 100 lbs for each of the two front stacks with 12 modules and just over 200 lbs for the rear stack with the 24 modules.
This is logical as each module weighs 8.4 lbs. And there are steel end plates to compress the modules.
The battery shell is well over 120 lbs for the double-walled bottom and approx 30 lbs for the top and then there is some weight for the contactor box, the disconnects and the wiring loom and the many bolts.
That is why the total pack weight is around 600 lbs.
Cor.
 
End next week I expect to have another 2014 Leaf battery available, in case someone is interested.
 
Cor said:
End next week I expect to have another 2014 Leaf battery available, in case someone is interested.
Do you make cross-country house calls?

I dropped my fourth bar last week. I called Nissan, but I'm well out of warranty and they wouldn't offer any discount on a replacement pack. :(
 
garsh said:
Do you make cross-country house calls?
I dropped my fourth bar last week. I called Nissan, but I'm well out of warranty and they wouldn't offer any discount on a replacement pack.
Freight shipping of a pack is about $500,
I shipped one in a crate last month to someone on the East coast.
There was actually a pack available not too far away from him, but before I could arrange it,
it was bought by someone else in California, so I had to ship a pack from California to the East Coast. Crazy.
Cor.
 
Here's an update on how my Leaf is adjusting to the "new" battery:

5OyvUV2.png


Looks like it correlates better with miles driven rather than time. Another note, I got my 4th regen bubble back at around 100670 miles, which is around 43.5 AH/66.3 SOH/45 Hx. My driving efficiency has gone up about 10% (now around 4.4 mi/kWH vs. 4.0 before the swap).

The car still shows 5 bars of capacity, but the GOM showed 73 mi after the last charge today.
 
Cor said:
End next week I expect to have another 2014 Leaf battery available, in case someone is interested.
I picked up the 2014 battery and noticed some dents in the exterior shell, which did not concern me too much as I have seen plenty junkyard packs having huge dents, only to be a cosmetic issue. The BMS reported 55 Ah which is decent, about 85% capacity left.
But just to make sure, I took the top shell off and then noticed that two modules are actually affected by one of the dents in the top shell,
the alu covers around the module are slightly bent and one of the 4 pouches (cells) inside are pushed a bit to the other cells on the top.
While there seems to be no adverse effects, no leaks or anything, I am a bit hesitant to use this complete pack in a car
so I will likely end up returning it or selling the remaining 46 undamaged individual modules.
Bummer.
 
jkenny23 said:
Here's an update on how my Leaf is adjusting to the "new" battery:

5OyvUV2.png


Looks like it correlates better with miles driven rather than time. Another note, I got my 4th regen bubble back at around 100670 miles, which is around 43.5 AH/66.3 SOH/45 Hx. My driving efficiency has gone up about 10% (now around 4.4 mi/kWH vs. 4.0 before the swap).

The car still shows 5 bars of capacity, but the GOM showed 73 mi after the last charge today.
Cool pics, showing how the BMS is aging out old info and averaging the new data
 
Looks like the BMS has slowed down to a much more gradual slope recently, and still tracking better to miles rather than time. Still showing 5 bars on the gauge but have nearly full range (around 70-80mi on the GoM after a full charge):

0aRyPSt.png

6ne7jtZ.png
 
I just stripped the modules from a UK 2012 pack keeping all the bus bars (orange bits), BMS wiring etc reusable by someone else. Message me if there is anything anyone wants before I scrap it.

Stay well
 
Looks like my BMS has finally finished adjusting to the new capacity:

yYvNbTn.png


Sadly it seems I'm not going to hit the initial value (read from the salvage vehicle's BMS) of 58.69AH. Still quite happy with the ~60 miles of range I'm getting now. Still shows 5 bars on the dash, not sure when/if that will update.
 
Nice charts.

My car was down to 10 bars before I dropped in a 12 bar battery a year ago. The bars have not returned despite LeafSpy having shown the SOH gradually recover to 90%. (It has since gradually ebbed to 87%)
 
I haven’t been on mnl for a while. I have a 2011 leaf with 55k miles. Appears I will lose my 4th bar soon.

From reading through the thread, this is what I gather:
1. Nissan will not discount a battery replacement for me (I was going to try to put a warranty claim in even though I’m way out of the time frame...and hope they’d discount as a good faith effort)
2. Finding a 3rd party mechanic cheaper replacement isn’t very probable (I’m in GA where there are a lot of leafs and was hoping there’d be a market here) due to necessary programming vs labor intensity...I don’t have the skills to do this kind of work myself.

I’m stuck right now. The car still works for my or my wife’s commute, but is getting annoying planning weekend trips around range issues. I’d be willing to spend $6k for a replacement, but it seems like a lot of risk vs buying a newer leaf resale (in case of total loss accident). Also, GA is punishing ev users by an annual $200 ev fee (I understand roads need to be paid for, but this seemed arbitrary). I may get as much use out of my 11 and then reassess what’s out there.
 
Rktennis said:
I’d be willing to spend $6k for a replacement...
I thought that Nissan installs a new battery for $5900 or is that what you are referring to?
 
A recent update from Nissan. This seems to be about Japan, not sure if it applies in USA:

https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/release-487297034c80023008bd9722aa06bbbe-180326-04-j
Nissan starts exchange program for Nissan LEAF batteries in Japan
LEAF owners will be able to trade in old batteries for refabricated ones
2018/03/26
 
jlsoaz said:
A recent update from Nissan. This seems to be about Japan, not sure if it applies in USA:

https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/release-487297034c80023008bd9722aa06bbbe-180326-04-j
Nissan starts exchange program for Nissan LEAF batteries in Japan
LEAF owners will be able to trade in old batteries for refabricated ones
2018/03/26

Was going to post about that also. If the pricing holds the same for the US (assuming they do the same program here too) that's a great deal, ~$2800 for 24kWH replacement pack is $117/kWH, under market rate for Li-Ion batteries right now, though they're making some money back from using the cells in other projects like those street lamps they unveiled.
 
Hello, did enybody tried to make power bank for from 18650 batteries for nissan leaf 2011 or later and just put in baggage back, couse if to colculate that one cell f.eg. 18650PF is 10,7w/h so to get 10kwlh of extra energy you need aprox 960 cells and of ourse connect it in 96s10p plius BMS, so it's gonna be aprox 50kg and 20ltr pack which takes only 10 cm of baggage space down inside, and the price to get these nice cells aprox 1800 euros. Does somebody tried to make something like this? And for me most interesting to know how does the main computer of the car react to it or does just discharge/charge goes 2 times slower then before? Couse to make like this battery is wery easy couse I made before much of el. bicycle batteries.
 
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