rmay635703
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:33 pm

This is definitely my favorite thread here on MNL

co2112
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 12:30 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Jun 2015
Leaf Number: 009322
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:16 pm

rmay635703 wrote:This is definitely my favorite thread here on MNL


Still following it also even though I traded my Leaf in November. Best of luck to Cor in completing the swap.
2011 Black SL

2013 Rav4 EV - 2263

NiallDarwin
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:58 am
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 004321
Location: New Zealand

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:14 pm

Yes indeedy, over stressed cells have an increased internal resitance meaning they disharge more quickly meaning they get over discharged meaning that...
So I got my hands on some replacement modules, tried my hardest to match the cell voltages and here's what a difference it made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsaUXXixOZ0

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:05 pm

Cor wrote:
Kris1 wrote:Also interested to hear your thoughts on swapping the new double thickness ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/qt88me809t3w5w2/1.25kwh.jpg?dl=0) modules into a G1 battery case.

Hi Kris,
Aha! so that is how the new 30kWh modules look like!
They appear to be a drop-in replacement for a pair of 24kWh modules, so I see no issues -


Mechanically, there will be no special issues.

The problem will be the VERY different discharge curves between the 24 and 30 kWh chemistries.

Cor
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:44 am

RNM wrote:
Cor wrote:Hi Kris,
Aha! so that is how the new 30kWh modules look like!
They appear to be a drop-in replacement for a pair of 24kWh modules, so I see no issues -

Mechanically, there will be no special issues.
The problem will be the VERY different discharge curves between the 24 and 30 kWh chemistries.

The chemistries are the same, just a difference in capacity.
As long as you do not mix 24 and 30 kWh modules in the same pack, I see no problem.
The 30kWh modules will simply discharge longer before the voltage drops to minimum,
so they can deliver current for a longer period due to increased capacity.
The BMS (LBC) will learn how to deal with that, just like it learns how to deal with the degraded capacity of a used pack.
After some time a used 30kWh pack will look like a new 24kWh pack, after all.
So no, I do not expect that there is any issue with swapping *all* modules from 24 to 30kWh and maintaining the same BMS.
This is not much different than the swap from worn (degraded) modules to new 24 kWh modules and I have done that swap several times, the BMS will immediately recognised that the battery takes longer to discharge and charge, because it goes by the cell voltages and after a little while (couple weeks) it has adjusted the estimated Ah capacity and the estimated range.

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:18 am

Discharge curve = tension vs DoD (not Ah). They're are different.

Don't take my word for it, test them yourself.

And if they are different, it's a different chemistry.

Bern101
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:45 am
Delivery Date: 12 Mar 2013
Leaf Number: 006302

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:47 pm

Hi,

I am the owner of a Nissan Leaf 2011.
My battery don't have the cold weather package.

I can have a 2015 battery from a scap yard
This battery have the cold weather package (and I need it)

Can I install it in my 2011 Nissan Leaf ?

Thank's

Valdemar
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:13 pm

Only by opening the batteries and moving individual modules over from new to old.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

Cor
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:17 pm

Bern101 wrote:My battery don't have the cold weather package.
I can have a 2015 battery from a scap yard
This battery have the cold weather package (and I need it)
Can I install it in my 2011 Nissan Leaf ?

Hi Bern,
The battery modules you can remove from the 2015 battery (you will need to cut open the shell as it is glued shut) and remove the modules, then also open the 2011 shell (which is bolted, so much easier to open), remove the old modules and replace the 3 sub-packs with the new modules, but you *have to* also move the wiring from the old to the new modules so that you can use the old BMS (which is paired with the car).
The cold weather package (the white plastic covers on top of the modules) cannot work in your 2011 for 2 reasons:
- the car does not have the wiring and contactor to power the heaters
- the 2011 battery shell does not have the connector (or even the opening) to connect the heaters to.

In theory it is really simple to make the heaters work even without all the provisions in the car, when you are making changes in the battery box anyway, but it requires that you find some space for:
1) termerature sensor (thermostat type)
2) high voltage relay
Instead of connecting the heaters to the (absent) 3rd connector, you hook it up to the *output* of the main contactors (the back side of the large high voltage plug) and you insert the extra high voltage relay in one of these two extra wires. (NOTE that high voltage relays can be polarized, so you need to check in which wire / in which direction you best insert it and it needs to be connected on the "car" side of the contactors, not the battery side so the heater cannot run the battery flat when the car if off!)

The 12V power for the extra high voltage relay's coil is taken from one of the two main contactor relay coil power wires, one wire run through the thermostat so the extra relay coil can only receive power and close to power the heaters when the temperature is low enough to make the thermostat close.

Hope this helps,
Cor.

Cor
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:49 pm

BTW, if you need a low current high voltage relay then I have some pre-charge contactors from the Leaf pack that would be ideal for this, but you can harvest this from the 2015 contactor box as well.

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