User avatar
Boomer23
Posts: 3519
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:57 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:20 pm

So, my friends with Tesla Model 3 reservations, the news is out there. What are your thoughts on converting your reservation(s) to orders?

Best I can tell from various news sources:

$35k plus $1200 delivery chg for a 220 mile (probably less than 60 kWh pack) car with cloth seats, one central screen, manual seats, metal main roof, all Supercharging for a usage fee, AP hardware but not activated, black paint or 5 other colors for extra $1k, WiFi and LTE, keyless entry via cell phone or RFD card (no fob), dual
Zone climate, Nav and Maps, LED lights.

$9k extra for bigger pack, estimated 310 miles range, faster accel and faster charging,

$5k extra for premium interior, heated power seats, glass roof, wireless phone charging, rear USB ports, wood dash trim, upgrade sound, covered console storage, folding dimming side mirrors, driver profile memory

$1500 extra for nicer, larger wheels ( 19 inch vs 18 inch black aero covers)

$5k extra to activate AP features including adaptive cruise control

$3k extra to activate full self driving

No dual motors yet, wait maybe a year.
No P series yet, no word on that

First cars going to customers (assume non-employees) in October, but first ones shipped will be large battery, Premium interior, so $50,200 including destination fee, but before adding AP, color paint, nicer wheels.

Fully loaded: right at $60k before tax and DMV, and that's without dual motors, or $57k if you don't order full self driving. Compare to a base Model S RWD at $72k or $76k with AP activated. Maybe a $20k difference if you compare similarly equipped Model 3 and S.

Oh, and at this moment, apparently no Model 3 leases from Tesla, only purchases.

Motor Trend got an early informal test drive and absolutely loved the car.

Tesla delivery estimator has me getting a large battery Premium model between November and January. If I order a small battery car, I'm in the Jan to March time frame. Those of you who already have a Model S or X and ordered day one will probably be in the Oct thru Dec time frame.

For me, I'm thinking large battery, Premium interior, larger wheels, AP, color paint. I'd really much prefer a lease. Will have to do some major thinking if lease not available when I order. My son wants my other reservation, but at base price only.
2014 BMW i3 with Range Extender
2017 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Kinetic Blue
Blog: http://drivingelectric.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
garygid
Gold Member
Posts: 12417
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 29 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000855
Location: Laguna Hills, Orange Co, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:00 am

Great gathering of info, way beyond what was "delivered" by the Tesla video. Thanks.

However, a 220 to 310 mile range, about a 40% (88 miles) increase in range, would seem to need at least a 40% increase in battery capacity ... 60 kWh to 60 + 24 = 84 kWh, or maybe 50 kWh + 20 = 70 kWh usable, perhaps called 60 kWh and 75 kWh by marketing?

Perhaps to avoid the glass roof, one is limited to the Standard Interior?

Will the Standard $35k model have any form of Cruise Control?

See you all next Saturday at the Golden Corral in City of Industry.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

User avatar
abasile
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1875
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:28 pm

Boomer23 wrote:Those of you who already have a Model S or X and ordered day one will probably be in the Oct thru Dec time frame.

Yes, as I posted in the "Model 3" thread, that is indeed the case for us.

Our big dilemma is that our mountain-dwelling family currently has no vehicle with AWD, and it's no fun having to install snow chains to satisfy the California authorities. A portion of our family would also like to have the "AutoPilot" feature and get in a long range EV that's smaller than our beautiful Model S. The plan has been to replace our Prius with a dual motor Model 3; we only really "need" one vehicle with AWD. Unfortunately, though for good reasons, Elon keeps pushing back the availability of this variant - the current estimate from Tesla for us is Aug. - Oct. 2018.

Eventually, it would be nice for us to acquire a Model X for the larger size, AutoPilot v2, and trailer hitch for bikes. I suppose if we made such an acquisition sooner rather than later, then that'd also give us AWD, and the Model 3 could be RWD. However, even a used Model X (with at least 90 kWh capacity) would be quite pricey! Three years from now might be another story.

I'm sort of thinking the wisest course of action might be to just wait for a dual-motor Model 3, even if we miss some of the federal tax credit. That'd also give Tesla more time to work out bugs. Finally, I must say that we are very blessed to even be able to entertain such discussion, given that most of the world is less fortunate than we are.
2011 LEAF at 69K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 89K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

tbleakne
Gold Member
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2400
Location: Claremont, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:22 pm

Very nice test drive review of Model 3 at Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-31/driving-tesla-s-model-3-changes-everything

Video, A nice photo showing the glass roof, diagram how you can sleep in it even though it is not a true hatchback. The photo is from Washington Post. Interior, presumably premium, looks a lot better than earlier shots.

I really like this photo - it almost sells the car for me by itself

Image
LEAF Ocean Blue SL, "100 % Electric" decals, Delivered June 3, 2011
Sold June 2014 27K miles, 18% capacity loss, 1 bar, 5.0 mi/kWh.
Solar 4.6 KW DC with both string and micro-inverters.

sparky
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:00 pm

Boomer23 wrote:So, my friends with Tesla Model 3 reservations, the news is out there. What are your thoughts on converting your reservation(s) to orders?
$35k plus $1200 delivery chg for a 220 mile (probably less than 60 kWh pack) car with cloth seats, one central screen, manual seats, metal main roof, all Supercharging for a usage fee, AP hardware but not activated, black paint or 5 other colors for extra $1k, WiFi and LTE, keyless entry via cell phone or RFD card (no fob), dual
Zone climate, Nav and Maps, LED lights.

$9k extra for bigger pack, estimated 310 miles range, faster accel and faster charging,

$5k extra for premium interior, heated power seats, glass roof, wireless phone charging, rear USB ports, wood dash trim, upgrade sound, covered console storage, folding dimming side mirrors, driver profile memory

$1500 extra for nicer, larger wheels ( 19 inch vs 18 inch black aero covers)

$5k extra to activate AP features including adaptive cruise control
.....

For me, I'm thinking large battery, Premium interior, larger wheels, AP, color paint. I'd really much prefer a lease. Will have to do some major thinking if lease not available when I order. My son wants my other reservation, but at base price only.
Boomer, you and I checked most of the same boxes. I may hold off on the Full Self Driving unless I can I drive a S or X demo of it that knocks my socks off.

This link shows $1000 for delivery & doc but maybe that employee is at Fremont factory.
My wife was leaning towards a non-leather interior. Interesting that leather is no longer an option on Teslas. So, easy decision.
Oct-Dec delivery shows for me on the "MyTesla" page.

Lots of car changes for me in the next year I think.
Selling the LEAF after 7 good years.
Selling my workhorse Volvo SUV which is no longer driven except to car wash and gas station it seems.
Buying Model 3. Like you, I'd prefer to lease but no prob if I have to buy.
Sell my Model S.
Will probably lease a an X100D once Tesla does the inevitable re-fresh and the mid-2017 inventory units are priced to move.
Hoping Model Y happens about the time Model X lease runs out.

User avatar
Boomer23
Posts: 3519
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:57 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:54 pm

Cool stuff, guys. Nice to read your thoughts.

Here's my favorite and most comprehensive review yet. Motor Trend had Kim Reynolds, (tbleakne and my acquaintance) their road test editor get to drive the red Model 3 that Tesla's chief designer Frank Von Holtzhausen is driving around So Cal, on roads up near Mulholland Dr just a couple days before the July 28 delivery event.

Lots of photos and video and some great, glowing commentary from Reynolds.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/mo ... 1C67F7EA23
2014 BMW i3 with Range Extender
2017 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Kinetic Blue
Blog: http://drivingelectric.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tbleakne
Gold Member
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2400
Location: Claremont, CA

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:20 pm

Confirming that with MS ownership + near front of line on day 1, thanks to Boomer, my reservation also shows Oct-Dec as earliest delivery for $49K, 310 mi range, Dec-Feb for 220 mi range battery, May-July 2018 for dual-motor, no price.

Moving up to full AP is key to me for my next car. It looks like I will have to give up on waiting for more, better radar (phased array) for AP. Elon was quite specific that the current complement of 8 cameras + 1 forward radar will take us to full Level-4 AP. I am not so sure, and it is a shame, because UCI developed a prototype phased array chip for autonomous driving several years ago.

Current radar on all cars is pathetic, with wide beam and just simple chirp continuous wave processing to derive range. Phased array gives you a much smaller beam, electronically steerable in micro-seconds, with enough power to reflect not just from cars, but carbon-based life forms, in all kinds of weather. Having range and range-rate information to complement the camera detection should really improve detection and motion prediction.

I would also like dual motor, mainly because it is cool, and opting for that would give me more time to wait.
LEAF Ocean Blue SL, "100 % Electric" decals, Delivered June 3, 2011
Sold June 2014 27K miles, 18% capacity loss, 1 bar, 5.0 mi/kWh.
Solar 4.6 KW DC with both string and micro-inverters.

GRA
Posts: 7359
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:43 pm

Image
That photo puts me in mind of voluntarily driving in a reflector oven in the desert SW. There've been plenty of complaints that the A/C isn't able to cope with high temps in the SE or SW, and unless this roof has some major differences from those in the S/X, I see little likelihood of any improvement here. Is there any indication the Model 3 offers a built-in sliding sunshade, or will people be dependent on some sort of cheap afterthought band-aid of a sunshade as has happened in the past? Personally, while there are situations where such a roof is nice, I'd opt for a simpler/cheaper/lighter approach of a conventional roof. Don't need a sunroof either, for the same reason. If I want to look at the sky, I can step or sleep outside. And a solid roof will be warmer in cold temps as well.
Last edited by GRA on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

sparky
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:55 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2011
Location: SoCal

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:38 pm

I also love the the photo and will opt for the glass roof.
I've driven my pano-glass-roof Model S in the desert Southwest at noon in 110° F sun and up over the I-15 summit near Beaver, UT at -9° F.
Always comfortable. My balding head is very sensitive to temps.

GRA
Posts: 7359
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: SoCal LEAF & EV Gathering, Y7 - GC in COI - 5 Aug 2017

Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:06 pm

sparky wrote:I also love the the photo and will opt for the glass roof.
I've driven my pano-glass-roof Model S in the desert Southwest at noon in 110° F sun and up over the I-15 summit near Beaver, UT at -9° F.
Always comfortable. My balding head is very sensitive to temps.

Everyone's temperature tolerance is different, and there will inevitably be a range of views on whether a sunshade/solid roof is or isn't necessary or desirable for comfort, in addition to the reduction in HVAC energy usage that it provides. In my case, I routinely cross-country ski shirtless, dressed in nothing but shorts, socks, boots, gaiters, fingerless bike gloves and a ball cap, so while my tolerance to cold is excellent, it's the opposite to heat. If I lived in a hotter climate instead of just visiting them occasionally, that might be different.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Pacific USA”