SageBrush
Posts: 2923
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: California Lags in DC Fast-Charging Station Density for Electric Vehicles

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:38 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:I'm not sure where you are getting this.

You are right, my mistake. 190 mile range is more 75 mph.

As an aside, as a ballpark estimate for most cars, I use the EPA highway figure MPGe (corrected for charging losses) as a surrogate for travel at 65 mph. So in the case of the Bolt with a 110 MPGe and 60 kWh max usable battery the range works out to
60000/(33700/(110*1.12)) = 219 miles*. This rule of thumb underestimates the range in cars like the Tesla with unusually low CdA values because the actual EPA testing occurs at a much lower speed and then a 30% discount on the range is applied.

These discussions should keep in mind that we normally assume EPA testing like conditions of travel, meaning 50 - 80F ambient, not wet, no snow, and no headwind.


*
60,000 - Wh battery capacity
33,700 - Wh in one gallon
110 - Highway MPGe
1.12 - 12% charging losses
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

smkettner
Posts: 7220
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: California Lags in DC Fast-Charging Station Density for Electric Vehicles

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:01 am

paulgipe wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm sorry, but this OP is self-serving propaganda of the eastern Sierra advocacy for the advancement of feeble EVs in sparsely traveled areas. I sort of appreciate the advocacy* to not leave any EV behind (thanks, George) but not the approach.
I think you would be surprised by the volume of traffic on US 395. Why do you think Tesla installed four superchargers on the route?
I don't know the DC charging available on 395 but I am all for the expansion to have something every 100 miles before we build another hydrogen station anywhere.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

GRA
Posts: 9512
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: California Lags in DC Fast-Charging Station Density for Electric Vehicles

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:05 pm

smkettner wrote:
paulgipe wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm sorry, but this OP is self-serving propaganda of the eastern Sierra advocacy for the advancement of feeble EVs in sparsely traveled areas. I sort of appreciate the advocacy* to not leave any EV behind (thanks, George) but not the approach.
I think you would be surprised by the volume of traffic on US 395. Why do you think Tesla installed four superchargers on the route?
I don't know the DC charging available on 395 but I am all for the expansion to have something every 100 miles before we build another hydrogen station anywhere.

Naturally, I'm all for building both QCs and H2, especially as you need fewer H2 stations to provide the same coverage, but that's an argument that's been hashed out many times already, and no need to repeat it.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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paulgipe
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: California Lags in DC Fast-Charging Station Density for Electric Vehicles

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:23 pm

peter wrote:I'm a 7 yr 2011 Leaf owner who recently bought a 2018 Bolt and returned the Prius. We are now 100% electric.
It also makes me wonder that it may be possible to do the uphill route with no stops with very careful driving. But certainly even a 15 min stop is all that should be necessary.

Also note: total cost of trip was $0 thanks to recent EVgo/Chevy promotion, solar, & free destination charging.


Great trip report Peter. The detail is useful to all the nerds on this forum. ;)

As I've been trying to point out on this thread if you have reasonable capacity, 60 kWh, and reasonable charge rate, 45 kW on a 125 amp station, with reliable DCFC stations these kinds of trips are easily doable now.

As noted downthread from your post, it's not just the EV, it's the EV and the network. The network includes the stations, DCFC to be sure, and a reasonable charge rate. At the moment 40-45 kW charge rates are satisfactory. Yes, 125 kW would be better, but that's not what we have at the moment. What we need is the charge stations. They are completely lacking on certain routes--in California where we have an official state policy promoting EV use.

I've posted on this site our 175 mile trip at the speed limit over the Sierra Nevada to Independence. We could have gone on to Bishop if there was a charge station there. That's a 200+ mile trip, but we would not have likely reached the ski resort of Mammoth Lakes.

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; Jesla; JDapter Stub
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