California HOV access to BEV, PHEV and HEV

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evchels

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
329
Cannot find out if the Leaf will get a yellow, or white, or any HOV carpool-lane sticker from California DMV. I have had one on my 2004 Prius since 2004, and it is set to expire in June 2011, as far as I know. No carpool lane privileges, no deal.

White sticker, good to 2015. Yellow sticker doesn't go through June '11, it expires January 1 just as it was supposed to do before they started messing with the legislation renewal.

Minor point- assuming SB535 gets signed by the Gov (and no reason to believe it won't, despite the fact that it's not a great bill), the hybrids do indeed get extended another 6 months. Then there's a 6-month "cleansing period" during which the hybrids get pulled out before the PHEVs go in on Jan 1, 2012.

Re: electric rates- the reason Nissan can't give this info, as illustrated in this thread, is because there are literally several thousand utilities in the country, and then a bunch of individual situations on top of each. Utilities in this go-round don't really want to deploy whole separate meters for EVs, but they are aware of the issue of the vehicles pushing the rest of the house into a higher tier, and are working on ways to alleviate that (looks like they're all leaning toward sub-panels and/or sub-meters). PG&E does already have an EV rate (E-9), which, combined with any of the meter separation technologies actually gives you some of the cheaper off-peak rates in the state.

For info about PG&E's EV programs:
www.pge.com/electricvehicles/
877-743-7782
[email protected]
 
evchels said:
Minor point- assuming SB535 gets signed by the Gov (and no reason to believe it won't, despite the fact that it's not a great bill), the hybrids do indeed get extended another 6 months. Then there's a 6-month "cleansing period" during which the hybrids get pulled out before the PHEVs go in on Jan 1, 2012.

Very true, now that SB535 has a shot at being signed. But I'm actually rather hoping the Governator doesn't....AB1500 is fine - turf the hybirds in January and let PURE EVs in right away!

Edit: Actually, I'm going to write the Governator and ASK him to veto it, and suggest you all do the same.
 
I wrote the Governator today, to urge a veto of SB 535, and I would suggest you do the same. Do we really want Hybrids in the HOV lanes for six more months? Do we really want the issuance of our Leaf HOV decals delayed until 2012? Do we really want the Volt in the HOV lane (which is really what SB535 is ALL about). Here is my email to him. Feel free to copy it verbatim:

Governor Schwarzenegger, I urge you to veto SB535 (Yee) when the comes across your desk.

AB1500 (Lieu), signed into law by your good self a few weeks ago, already meets the ongoing goals of Californians - moving us towards a cleaner environment using vehicles powered by Natural Gas, pure Electric power, and (eventually) Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and by eliminating all non-ILEV vehicles (gasoline powered hybrids) from the HOV decal program.

SB535 is simply another attempt by a corporate interest (GM) to move their narrow agenda forward - in this case allowing the Chevy Volt HOV lane access.

The Volt is nothing better than a series hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid, like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time recharging the battery pack with gasoline, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.

With best Regards,
etc.......
 
I've just noticed something that I would may have changed if I were to write the letter again. Of course the Volt doesn't run on gasoline, it simply uses gasoline to recharge it's battery. Oh, well. That's what I get for writing this on only one cup of coffee. I would change that bit up, if I were you.

There you go, I've amended that paragraph to read:

The Volt is nothing better than a series hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid, like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time recharging the battery pack with gasoline, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.
 
mwalsh said:
Of course the Volt doesn't run on gasoline, it simply uses gasoline to recharge it's battery.

Actually it runs on gasoline - and recharges battery only a little. Only difference is that the ICE doesn't have a mechanical link to the wheels - but the genset directly powers the motor without needing to go through the battery (which would be more inefficient).
 
mwalsh said:
evchels said:
Minor point- assuming SB535 gets signed by the Gov (and no reason to believe it won't, despite the fact that it's not a great bill), the hybrids do indeed get extended another 6 months. Then there's a 6-month "cleansing period" during which the hybrids get pulled out before the PHEVs go in on Jan 1, 2012.

Very true, now that SB535 has a shot at being signed. But I'm actually rather hoping the Governator doesn't....AB1500 is fine - turf the hybirds in January and let PURE EVs in right away!

Edit: Actually, I'm going to write the Governator and ASK him to veto it, and suggest you all do the same.

It sounds to me EVs will get HOV stickers rightaway - only PHEVs (Volt) will get it in '12.
 
mwalsh said:
evchels said:
Minor point- assuming SB535 gets signed by the Gov (and no reason to believe it won't, despite the fact that it's not a great bill), the hybrids do indeed get extended another 6 months. Then there's a 6-month "cleansing period" during which the hybrids get pulled out before the PHEVs go in on Jan 1, 2012.

Very true, now that SB535 has a shot at being signed. But I'm actually rather hoping the Governator doesn't....AB1500 is fine - turf the hybirds in January and let PURE EVs in right away!

Edit: Actually, I'm going to write the Governator and ASK him to veto it, and suggest you all do the same.

Not to take this topic too far afield, but I think that would be good, for reasons that have nothing to do with the Leaf. AB1500 ensured that EVs keep their access, uninterrupted, until 2015. So anyone here who gets a Leaf really has nothing to worry about. SB535 was created to provide access for PHEVs, which will occur in 2012; the extra 6 months for gas hybrids is just a minor side effect. And I do think giving certain non-pure BEV plug-ins access is important for market stimulation- particularly since they draw from different "pools", so a PHEV/EREV won't be taking a sticker from a BEV. However, the current bill is constructed in such a way that the PHEV Prius, which cannot function at true freeway speeds without using gas will get in, while the Volt, which will for most daily commuters (which the lanes are meant to address) will never or rarely use gas at all. At the end of the day, it's not about either of these particular vehicles, but they make a good illustration about needing some minimum electrification requirements and making sure we choose appropriate metrics for a given situation. SB535 started out fine, but was changed in June to the detriment of the movement. Given that it doesn't take effect for a year and a half (but doesn't impact BEV access at all), it seems to me we have ample time to go back and do it right.
 
garygid said:
LEAF EV gets sticker now, NOT delayed until 2012, right?

Under AB1500, yes. But I'm not sure about under SB 535. I thought I read in one of the news articles that the new "white sticker" program starts in 2012. But you know how bad (and lazy) many journos are.....I'm going to have to do some more research.

Either way SB 535 is icky, and stinks of corporate influence. :x
 
evchels said:
Not to take this topic too far afield ....

I'm branching this off to another thread. It is important enough to be discussed ...

Also merging the "write to ..." thread.
 
Here is what I wrote:

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,

I urge you to veto SB535 (Yee) when the bill comes across your desk.

AB1500 (Lieu), signed into law by you a few weeks ago, already meets the ongoing goals of Californians: moving us towards a cleaner environment using vehicles powered by Natural Gas, pure Electric power and (eventually) Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and by eliminating all non-ILEV vehicles (gasoline powered hybrids) from the HOV decal program.

However, SB535 is simply another attempt by a corporate interest (GM) to move their narrow agenda forward - in this case allowing the Chevy Volt HOV lane access.

The Volt is nothing more than a series plug-in hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time running on gasoline only, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.

Meanwhile, SB 535 delays the issuance of HOV stickers to such pure electric vehicles as the Nissan Leaf.

Both of these provisions are contrary to the goal of a cleaner environment and the endorsement of alternate energy sources.

For all these reasons, I strongly urge a veto of SB 535.

Sincerely,
 
mwalsh said:
I wrote the Governator today, to urge a veto of SB 535, and I would suggest you do the same. Do we really want Hybrids in the HOV lanes for six more months? Do we really want the issuance of our Leaf HOV decals delayed until 2012? Do we really want the Volt in the HOV lane (which is really what SB535 is ALL about). Here is my email to him. Feel free to copy it verbatim:

Governor Schwarzenegger:
I urge you to veto SB535 (Yee) when it comes across your desk.

AB1500 (Lieu), signed into law by your good self a few weeks ago, already meets the ongoing goals of Californians - moving us towards a cleaner environment using vehicles powered by Natural Gas, pure Electric power, and (eventually) Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and by eliminating all non-ILEV vehicles (gasoline powered hybrids) from the HOV decal program.

SB535 is simply another attempt by a corporate interest (GM) to move their narrow agenda forward - in this case allowing the Chevy Volt HOV lane access.

The Volt is nothing better than a series hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid, like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time recharging the battery pack with gasoline, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.

With best regards,
etc.......

I'm not in CA, but an Excellent letter Mike! I just cleaned it up a bit for ya. :)
 
evchels said:
mwalsh said:
evchels said:
Minor point- assuming SB535 gets signed by the Gov (and no reason to believe it won't, despite the fact that it's not a great bill), the hybrids do indeed get extended another 6 months. Then there's a 6-month "cleansing period" during which the hybrids get pulled out before the PHEVs go in on Jan 1, 2012.

Very true, now that SB535 has a shot at being signed. But I'm actually rather hoping the Governator doesn't....AB1500 is fine - turf the hybirds in January and let PURE EVs in right away!

Edit: Actually, I'm going to write the Governator and ASK him to veto it, and suggest you all do the same.

Not to take this topic too far afield, but I think that would be good, for reasons that have nothing to do with the Leaf. AB1500 ensured that EVs keep their access, uninterrupted, until 2015. So anyone here who gets a Leaf really has nothing to worry about. SB535 was created to provide access for PHEVs, which will occur in 2012; the extra 6 months for gas hybrids is just a minor side effect. And I do think giving certain non-pure BEV plug-ins access is important for market stimulation- particularly since they draw from different "pools", so a PHEV/EREV won't be taking a sticker from a BEV. However, the current bill is constructed in such a way that the PHEV Prius, which cannot function at true freeway speeds without using gas will get in, while the Volt, which will for most daily commuters (which the lanes are meant to address) will never or rarely use gas at all. At the end of the day, it's not about either of these particular vehicles, but they make a good illustration about needing some minimum electrification requirements and making sure we choose appropriate metrics for a given situation. SB535 started out fine, but was changed in June to the detriment of the movement. Given that it doesn't take effect for a year and a half (but doesn't impact BEV access at all), it seems to me we have ample time to go back and do it right.

Sorry Chels, I strongly disagree. ONLY BEVs, dedicated CNGs, and dedicated H2s should be allowed in the HOV lanes. At least here in AZ, they got it right! No more hybrids (gasoline/diesel) OR bi-fuels allowed (once their decals expire)! :)
 
tcimpidis said:
Here is what I wrote:

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger:

I urge you to veto SB535 (Yee) when the bill comes across your desk.

AB1500 (Lieu), signed into law by you a few weeks ago, already meets the ongoing goals of Californians: moving us towards a cleaner environment using vehicles powered by Natural Gas, pure Electric power and (eventually) Hydrogen Fuel Cells, and by eliminating all non-ILEV vehicles (gasoline powered hybrids) from the HOV decal program.

However, SB535 is simply another attempt by a corporate interest (GM) to move their narrow agenda forward - in this case allowing the Chevy Volt HOV lane access.

The Volt is nothing more than a series plug-in hybrid. While it claims to be cleaner by virtue of a larger battery pack than a normal hybrid like the Toyota Prius, it is expected that it will spend much of the time running on gasoline only, especially over distances that would typically have its drivers using the freeway.

Meanwhile, SB 535 delays the issuance of HOV stickers to such pure electric vehicles as the Nissan LEAF.

Both of these provisions are contrary to the goal of a cleaner environment and the endorsement of alternate energy sources.

For all these reasons, I strongly urge a veto of SB 535.
Sincerely,

Well done! I just cleaned it up a bit for ya! :)
 
Hey Leaffan- I understand the purist mindset, though I also think that given even the current revisions, it's appropriate to move CNG out of the white sticker "ZEV" class and into whatever gets setup for ATPZEVs, which is the category that CNG is actually classed under for CARB. That said, I personally am open to PHEV/EREVs that can operate in pure EV mode for the length (and speed) of a standard commute. BEV's don't yet have the range to make them viable for everyone, but I appreciate that consumers would choose one that would operate as a BEV most of the time. It's the lower-mileage PHEVs and those "blended" at city speeds that I don't think should have access, but that's just me.

On the letter- fine arguments, but a couple of factual inaccuracies for anyone else who might want create their own letters:

SB535 in no way delays the issuing of white stickers for EVs. It doesn't affect white stickers or EV access at all. It does 2 things: extends access for yellow stickered hybrids for 6 months, and (primarily) creates a new category (and presumably third sticker color) for PHEVs, which would gain access in Jan. 2012. Things will remain as they have been for years through July, 2011, ad will be white sticker only through the end of that year.

Also- the Volt operates as an EV at any speed for 40 miles (give or take your right foot, just as with Leaf). There is no gasoline involved at all until after that point. Fisker will be much the same. It's the PHEV Prius that will operate basically like a regular Prius on the freeway, unless the driver prays for traffic. It "blends" based on a certain power draw, but effectively that means that the top speed in EV mode is 60mph. It also has a nominal range of 13 miles below that speed. Neither of those specs lend themselves to an "average commute" in HOV lanes.
 
I think HOV lane should be reserved for non-gas driving. Any PHEV can get a "conditional" access to HOV lane - they use it only when using pure EV mode. Difficult to enforce though ...
 
evchels said:
Hey Leaffan- I understand the purist mindset, though I also think that given even the current revisions, it's appropriate to move CNG out of the white sticker "ZEV" class and into whatever gets setup for ATPZEVs, which is the category that CNG is actually classed under for CARB. That said, I personally am open to PHEV/EREVs that can operate in pure EV mode for the length (and speed) of a standard commute. BEV's don't yet have the range to make them viable for everyone, but I appreciate that consumers would choose one that would operate as a BEV most of the time. It's the lower-mileage PHEVs and those "blended" at city speeds that I don't think should have access, but that's just me.

On the letter- fine arguments, but a couple of factual inaccuracies for anyone else who might want create their own letters:

SB535 in no way delays the issuing of white stickers for EVs. It doesn't affect white stickers or EV access at all. It does 2 things: extends access for yellow stickered hybrids for 6 months, and (primarily) creates a new category (and presumably third sticker color) for PHEVs, which would gain access in Jan. 2012. Things will remain as they have been for years through July, 2011, ad will be white sticker only through the end of that year.

Also- the Volt operates as an EV at any speed for 40 miles (give or take your right foot, just as with Leaf). There is no gasoline involved at all until after that point. Fisker will be much the same. It's the PHEV Prius that will operate basically like a regular Prius on the freeway, unless the driver prays for traffic. It "blends" based on a certain power draw, but effectively that means that the top speed in EV mode is 60mph. It also has a nominal range of 13 miles below that speed. Neither of those specs lend themselves to an "average commute" in HOV lanes.

Just so you know Chels, I didn't write the letters, LOL, I just fixed some of the mechanics. I'm in AZ, not CA. But my car, Honda Civic GX, is the cleanest burning ICE in the world, so it belongs in the AZEV category. When I blend H2 with the cng, it is ALMOST minus emissions.
Now, here is a 'hole' in your argument for the Volt belonging in the HOV: Yes, they will be able to go maybe about 30-35 miles on batteries alone, depending on how they drive, BUT you can't ASSUME they will have a full charge. Maybe they get up and realize they forgot to charge it and say, "Oh well, I'll just use the gasoline and gen to charge the batteries or run the car whichever is the case." Then they hop into the HOV lane running ONLY on gasoline! It will happen a lot! I've seen it so many times with bi-fuel cars when they were allowed to use it. So again, NO, it isn't right or prudent to allow ANY gasoline cars in the HOV.
 
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