GetOffYourGas
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:29 am

jhm614 wrote:Re: January, 2018.

I just read some vague comments about the CARB ZEV credit rule changing for MY 2018 cars. Depending on if this is accurate, it could cause Nissan to delay the MY2018 Leaf 2.0 until January to maximize their 2017 credits. Although, if I did the calculation correctly the change is only .3 credits from 3.0 down to 2.7

Can any CARB experts confirm this change and if it is expected to cause current BEV manufactures to delay MY2018 introductions?


Makes no sense to me to tie this change to model year as opposed to calendar year. The automakers can arbitrarily decide when to introduce a new model year (within some constraints). CARB *should* be tying their rules to calendar year, IMO. Whether that's build date or in-service date is a different question.
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TomT
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:57 am

One possible reason why Nissan is dragging their feet on introducing a new Leaf before 2018 is that the ZEV credits drop substantially as of the 2018 MY... So, it behooves Nissan to drag out the 2017 MY until calendar 2018...
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jhm614
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:30 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:Makes no sense to me to tie this change to model year as opposed to calendar year. The automakers can arbitrarily decide when to introduce a new model year (within some constraints). CARB *should* be tying their rules to calendar year, IMO. Whether that's build date or in-service date is a different question.

I agree but this document and several others clearly indicate it is by Model Year (M2018).

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/z ... ebcast.pdf

edit: okay, I see that the MY2017 Leaf is eligible for 3 credits per Leaf and that the MY2018 will only be eligible for 2. Does that mean a delay until January unless sales completely drop off a cliff?
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eastocean
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:57 pm

Makes no sense to me to tie this change to model year as opposed to calendar year.


In days of yore the model year began in September, to take advantage of a perceived buying season. It also coincided with the new television season. By having the excitement of the new TV season, it increased the visibility of car commercials. The synergy was all about sales.

Newporttom
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:20 pm

Any thoughts on how powerful the charger might be? I have a 2012 and the thought of 6.6 instead of my 3.3 makes me lust for a 2013+. Just wondering if you think that might go higher on Leaf 2.0.
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GetOffYourGas
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:30 am

Newporttom wrote:Any thoughts on how powerful the charger might be? I have a 2012 and the thought of 6.6 instead of my 3.3 makes me lust for a 2013+. Just wondering if you think that might go higher on Leaf 2.0.


Personally I doubt it. Most public EVSEs are only 30-32A. That seems to be the defacto non-Tesla standard. For home/work charging, that's really all most people need.

What's more interesting to me is, how fast will it be able to QC? What does the current/next CHAdeMO standard support? Will Nissan rise to meet it? I don't know, but I sure hope so!
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:26 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Newporttom wrote:Any thoughts on how powerful the charger might be? I have a 2012 and the thought of 6.6 instead of my 3.3 makes me lust for a 2013+. Just wondering if you think that might go higher on Leaf 2.0.


Personally I doubt it. Most public EVSEs are only 30-32A. That seems to be the defacto non-Tesla standard. For home/work charging, that's really all most people need.

What's more interesting to me is, how fast will it be able to QC? What does the current/next CHAdeMO standard support? Will Nissan rise to meet it? I don't know, but I sure hope so!

I would hope they go up to at least 32a vs their current 27.5a. As you said 32a(maximum continuous draw for a 40a circuit) seems to be somewhat common for EVSEs and stopping at 27.5a leaves 4.5a or a potential 1.1kw on the table. Also note 27.5 is a weird amperage anyway, I mean a 30a circuit can only support 24a continious so anyone wanting to get the max out of their current Leaf would need a 40a circuit and since a 40a circuit can officially support 32a only using 27.5a again leaves ~1.1kw on the table. I have no idea how Nissan came up with 6.6kw(or 27.5a) but it's a rather weird max :?
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:45 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:Most public EVSEs are only 30-32A. That seems to be the defacto non-Tesla standard. For home/work charging, that's really all most people need.


For home/work, I agree.

As for public EVSEs, this depends on where you are. Near Winthrop, WA the lowest is 48A, two 70A and one 100A locations. Not a single 32A station.

I know that the answer is different elsewhere. Near Seattle, most are around 32A.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:20 am

WetEV wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Most public EVSEs are only 30-32A. That seems to be the defacto non-Tesla standard. For home/work charging, that's really all most people need.


For home/work, I agree.

As for public EVSEs, this depends on where you are. Near Winthrop, WA the lowest is 48A, two 70A and one 100A locations. Not a single 32A station.

I know that the answer is different elsewhere. Near Seattle, most are around 32A.


"most" are not! Just used one running around 4.9 KW (yes, it was a blink...)
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:01 am

jhm614 wrote:... Does that mean a delay until January unless sales completely drop off a cliff?

Not likely we'll see Gen one LEAF sales "drop off a cliff", at least until the Gen two LEAF is announced.

In fact, the reality that the LEAF Gen one is still selling so well (# 1 BEV in worldwide sales last month) is probably a major explanation for why Nissan is taking its time in introducing gen 2.

World Top 10 January 2017

Models - Nissan Leaf starts at #1


...the Nissan Leaf started the year in the leadership, something that wouldn't be much of a surprise, if it wasn't the oldest model in this Top 10 and the lowest range all-electric car here. Still, it has two important aces: First, it is sold worldwide, second, and most importantly, at this point Nissan has enough margin to make some deep discounts, winning customers by price...

Pl WORLD Jan. YTD

1 Nissan Leaf 3.679
2 Renault Zoe 2.606
3 BMW i3 2.389...

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