DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Initial reports suggest we call it "tMS" :?
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2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus
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Initial reports suggest we call it "tMS" :?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
eplus said:Latest e-Plus news:
Debut set for CES on 1/8/2019
On sale in Europe 5/2019 (no dates for other markets)
5800 Euro for the upgrade
60 kWh LG Chem battery
100 kWh charging capacity
149 kW performance
No liquid cooling
CHAdeMO
I'm not familiar with this news outlet, but if they have a good rep...
https://www.electrive.com/2018/12/04/exclusive-long-range-leaf-to-debut-without-liquid-cooling
New cells, new manufacturer... sure why not
A well designed heat exchanger that aids in cabin heating during Winter and uses a dedicated conditioned air system in Summer can easily do the trick. TBH, I wonder why no one has done this yet?
BrockWI
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:A well designed heat exchanger that aids in cabin heating during Winter and uses a dedicated conditioned air system in Summer can easily do the trick. TBH, I wonder why no one has done this yet?
Isn't that was the Model 3 has? I believe also the Niro and Kona?
Does the Bolt use the same heat pump as well for cabin and battery TMS?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
BrockWI said:DaveinOlyWA said:A well designed heat exchanger that aids in cabin heating during Winter and uses a dedicated conditioned air system in Summer can easily do the trick. TBH, I wonder why no one has done this yet?
Isn't that was the Model 3 has? I believe also the Niro and Kona?
Does the Bolt use the same heat pump as well for cabin and battery TMS?
All good questions that I don't know. I assumed Tesla stuck with liquid cooling.
I do know the Soul uses air cooling which in Summer would be cabin air. Brian Henderson has very good charging profiles with full speed charging to 75% and he simply runs AC while the car charges to help with the cooling. In Winter, I would imagine it would do very well as long as pack is not too cold.
BrockWI
Well-known member
Ah yes, I believe they are all water cooled, not air cooled. I was just thinking if it shared the same compressor, I believe the S & X use a separate compressor for pack TMS, but the 3, Bolt, Niro and Kona share the compressor, but use liquid cooling. Someone chime in if that isn't correct.
WetEV
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:A well designed heat exchanger that aids in cabin heating during Winter and uses a dedicated conditioned air system in Summer can easily do the trick. TBH, I wonder why no one has done this yet?
Physics. Air doesn't move enough heat.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
BrockWI said:Ah yes, I believe they are all water cooled, not air cooled. I was just thinking if it shared the same compressor, I believe the S & X use a separate compressor for pack TMS, but the 3, Bolt, Niro and Kona share the compressor, but use liquid cooling. Someone chime in if that isn't correct.
Hmmm, I know the Ford used multiple cooling systems and thought the Bolt did as well, one for cabin and one for battery?
A
Anonymous
Guest
With the delay in the reveal, and the deadline for turining in my current car being the end of the year, do y’all have any suggestions? I know we don’t know what all the 60 kWh version will have but based on what we know, I have to decide something soon, so any help is very appreciated. What would you do?
Go with 40 kWh version
Do long term car rental
Takeover someone’s lease that has 6 months or less remaining
Go with gasoline car and go electric later (not a fan of this idea)
I need to be practical and economical but don’t want to buy a gasoline car to keep for years. I’m not a fan of the Bolt’s styling.
Go with 40 kWh version
Do long term car rental
Takeover someone’s lease that has 6 months or less remaining
Go with gasoline car and go electric later (not a fan of this idea)
I need to be practical and economical but don’t want to buy a gasoline car to keep for years. I’m not a fan of the Bolt’s styling.
HerdingElectrons
Well-known member
eplus said:With the delay in the reveal, and the deadline for turining in my current car being the end of the year, do y’all have any suggestions? I know we don’t know what all the 60 kWh version will have but based on what we know, I have to decide something soon, so any help is very appreciated. What would you do?
Go with 40 kWh version
Do long term car rental
Takeover someone’s lease that has 6 months or less remaining
Go with gasoline car and go electric later (not a fan of this idea)
I need to be practical and economical but don’t want to buy a gasoline car to keep for years. I’m not a fan of the Bolt’s styling.
What is your max daily mileage needs? Would you ever try to do distance driving in a 40kWh or 60kWh Leaf or would you rent/borrow a ICE vehicle?
A
Anonymous
Guest
HerdingElectrons said:What is your max daily mileage needs? Would you ever try to do distance driving in a 40kWh or 60kWh Leaf or would you rent/borrow a ICE vehicle?
My daily commute is only 20 miles round trip. Once a month I travel 188 miles or so one way for a weekend. This is why I have been waiting for the e-plus, to avoid having to stop and charge on an already 3 hour trek.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
eplus said:With the delay in the reveal, and the deadline for turining in my current car being the end of the year, do y’all have any suggestions? I know we don’t know what all the 60 kWh version will have but based on what we know, I have to decide something soon, so any help is very appreciated. What would you do?
Go with 40 kWh version
Do long term car rental
Takeover someone’s lease that has 6 months or less remaining
Go with gasoline car and go electric later (not a fan of this idea)
I need to be practical and economical but don’t want to buy a gasoline car to keep for years. I’m not a fan of the Bolt’s styling.
Maybe approach Nissan about extending your lease for 6 months. If they know it is to wait for a 2019 Leaf, they will likely be very happy to accommodate you.
GRA
Well-known member
ABG:
https://www.autoblog.com/2018/12/07/nissan-leaf-e-plus-possible-reveal-ces-rumor/Nissan Leaf E-Plus may be revealed at CES, rumor has it
All unsubstantiated for now, but CES intro would make sense. If the rumor about lack of liquid cooling is accurate, then I think Nissan has just killed the LEAF in most of North America and similar climates. Some customers will accept that, but probably not many current LEAF owners who've experienced degradation and who will likely move on to other makes.We were hoping to see the new, longer-range Nissan Leaf EV last week at the 2018 Los Angeles Auto Show. That version's debut, expected sometime this year with a 60-kWh battery, a range of around 225 miles and the name "E-Plus," was delayed due to the swarm of news surrounding the arrest of Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn. Nissan said it delayed the reveal "to ensure that this important product unveiling could receive the coverage it merits." With the Ghosn news flurry dying down, we now hear a rumor from German outlet Electrive that the 60-kWh Nissan Leaf will get its official, public unveiling at the 2019 Consumer Electronics Show CES in Las Vegas this January.
Electrive reports that the information comes from an event for Nissan dealers earlier this week. The outlet also says there was buzz about the 60-kWh battery still lacking liquid cooling. With the current 40-kWh version, customers complained of slower charging speeds that resulted when repeatedly using fast chargers on long trips. The reduced speeds were caused by the thermal management software lowering charging speed to keep heat down and protect the battery from degradation. . . .
I think that what it will kill is the new Leaf sales market. People will still lease them, and still buy them used at a good price. What they won't do is buy the car new. Nissan will back off on production here, and it will, instead of starting as a compliance car, end as one.
cwerdna
Well-known member
The trends I'm seeing are that lots of Leafers have abandoned Leaf and moved onto other makes starting awhile ago (trend really picked up once Bolt came out). Seems lots were getting replaced with Bolts and an increasing set have jumped to Teslas, esp. the 3. Off the top of my head, I can personally think of 3 that jumped to Bolt (person next door, person two doors away from me, a woman at my work) and at least two that jumped to Tesla (two folks here on MNL). I don't believe the first two folks jumped to Bolt due to degradation or thermal management.GRA said:All unsubstantiated for now, but CES intro would make sense. If the rumor about lack of liquid cooling is accurate, then I think Nissan has just killed the LEAF in most of North America and similar climates. Some customers will accept that, but probably not many current LEAF owners who've experienced degradation and who will likely move on to other makes.
In a few cases, they still have their Leaf but haven't leased or bought another Leaf. Instead they got something else. Off the top of my head, I can think of a Bolt and Tesla, as well.
You should see the incoming rate of new/new to the driver Teslas showing up at my work compared to '18/'19 Leafs. Model 3's w/no plates yet are popping up all the time. We have over 90 Model 3's on our internal registry at work. I suspect there are several more mystery 3's that didn't self-register.
A
Anonymous
Guest
For the general public, perhaps the only thing hindering sales is the ~151 mile range. The longer range LEAF will have active cooling if it has the fan that's been mentioned.LeftieBiker said:I think that what it will kill is the new Leaf sales market. People will still lease them, and still buy them used at a good price. What they won't do is buy the car new. Nissan will back off on production here, and it will, instead of starting as a compliance car, end as one.
WetEV
Well-known member
eplus said:The longer range LEAF will have active cooling if it has the fan that's been mentioned.
A fan isn't active cooling.
The LEAF design is best suited for in town and commuting. Those that require real road trip capabilities should consider other cars. Those that want lower cost and higher reliability should consider the LEAF.
Yes, many of the early LEAF owners/leasers wanted more than a commuting car. And they are disappointed.
A
Anonymous
Guest
For whatever reason, Nissan seems to be referring to it as active. This is where I read/heard that:WetEV said:A fan isn't active cooling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnNGmessn0I&feature=youtu.be&t=204
https://insideevs.com/heres-nissan-employs-active-air-cooling-e-nv200-battery-pack/
Stoaty
Well-known member
I am one who jumped ship due to battery capacity loss. After 6.5 years in Los Angeles my Leaf lost 30% of capacity and was of significantly less usefulness. Gave it to my nephew in Seattle to use for his short commute. Bought a 2013 model S85 which had 95% of its original capacity (250 miles from a range charge). After 17 months of use there is no discernible further capacity loss. Assuming everything else holds up I can probably drive my Tesla for another 15+ years.cwerdna said:The trends I'm seeing are that lots of Leafers have abandoned Leaf and moved onto other makes starting awhile ago (trend really picked up once Bolt came out). Seems lots were getting replaced with Bolts and an increasing set have jumped to Teslas, esp. the 3. Off the top of my head, I can personally think of 3 that jumped to Bolt (person next door, person two doors away from me, a woman at my work) and at least two that jumped to Tesla (two folks here on MNL). I don't believe the first two folks jumped to Bolt due to degradation or thermal management.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Regarding the first three folks, they the first two were definitely leasing their Leafs and just returned them. The woman I think was, as well. Her commute was pretty far (mostly highway, as well) so she had to charge on both ends to make it in her 24 kWh Leaf. Roundtrip was basically impossible unless she hypermiled and took a non-highway alternative. So, getting a Bolt enabled her to have a lot more cushion and make the roundtrip w/o needing to charge on both ends. Also, I think when she got the Bolt, the '18 Leaf wasn't shipping yet.cwerdna said:The trends I'm seeing are that lots of Leafers have abandoned Leaf and moved onto other makes starting awhile ago (trend really picked up once Bolt came out). Seems lots were getting replaced with Bolts and an increasing set have jumped to Teslas, esp. the 3. Off the top of my head, I can personally think of 3 that jumped to Bolt (person next door, person two doors away from me, a woman at my work) and at least two that jumped to Tesla (two folks here on MNL). I don't believe the first two folks jumped to Bolt due to degradation or thermal management.GRA said:All unsubstantiated for now, but CES intro would make sense. If the rumor about lack of liquid cooling is accurate, then I think Nissan has just killed the LEAF in most of North America and similar climates. Some customers will accept that, but probably not many current LEAF owners who've experienced degradation and who will likely move on to other makes.
I just thought of yet another who jumped ship from Leaf (he was down 3 or 4 bars and past capacity warranty) to Clarity BEV. He's here on MNL but his move (to Clarity) is atypical.
alozzy
Well-known member
I really enjoy my LEAF, but I bought it as a used car for a very reasonable amount. I wouldn't even consider a LEAF as a new car buy. Absolute no brainer to buy a Kona Electric or Niro EV instead, which are both actively cooled, longer range EVs with impressive standard features and a reasonable price tag.
Other than being a gas guzzler, I had zero complaints with our Hyundai Santa Fe and would have no hesitation buying another Hyundai. Years ago, I had a Nissan Axxess, which was a perfect family car except for the fact that it was a nightmare to work on and had a biodegradable electrical system. Nissan has made a habit of making questionable design decisions, they don't seem to learn from their mistakes.
I think Nissan is going to lose significant market share to better competitors over the next few years and I don't really feel sorry for them. It's frustrating to see a company like this squander what was a significant lead, but they just seem to be making a half hearted effort the last few years.
Other than being a gas guzzler, I had zero complaints with our Hyundai Santa Fe and would have no hesitation buying another Hyundai. Years ago, I had a Nissan Axxess, which was a perfect family car except for the fact that it was a nightmare to work on and had a biodegradable electrical system. Nissan has made a habit of making questionable design decisions, they don't seem to learn from their mistakes.
I think Nissan is going to lose significant market share to better competitors over the next few years and I don't really feel sorry for them. It's frustrating to see a company like this squander what was a significant lead, but they just seem to be making a half hearted effort the last few years.
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