DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
jdcbomb said:
Agreed. 11½ hours on L2 is not attractive.
2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus
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Agreed. 11½ hours on L2 is not attractive.
alozzy
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
I suppose, but I would guess that most people will not be charging from a low SOC to full very often. I would guess that the only time the vast majority of owners would do that is on long road trips, in which case they can DCQC instead.
I made an argument in another thread that the depth of discharge for a typical 62 kWh e-Plus LEAF will likely be pretty low (i.e. 20-25%) for most owners, leading to slower degradation and many more charging cycles over the lifetime of the pack. After all, most people do the majority of their driving while commuting to/from work...
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
alozzy said:
This is true and if we take our long distance champ TaylorSF and remove his ability to do workplace charging, he would only be charging from about 40% if he fully charged every night. so about 6 hours or so. Plenty of time.
Range to burn has its benefits.
golfcart
Well-known member
alozzy said:
I was talking about that with my wife and I agree with you completely. One part of me thinks just DC quick charge twice a week to 80% at the dealership for free and save myself about $2000 over 5 years in electricity costs. And the other part of me says just plug it in at home as needed to keep it between 30% and 70% all of the time. Either way, it would rarely be at a high state of charge and would go through a lot less full cycles than my Gen1... probably the only time I'd charge it higher than 80% is on an out of town trip (which would be extremely rare in the Leaf).
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
golfcart said:
This has been my plan although I did do full charges 4X recently due to the severe wind warnings. It did help once as I lost power for nearly 48 hours. Would have been nice to have the LEAF Plus with Nissan Energy as I was probably within 24 hours of having major issues with the contents of my freezer. Having it outside in an unheated garage most likely saved me despite temps in the upper 40's to low 50's.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I spoke to a Nissan rep from Japan at CES and confirmed the OBC is still 6.6 kW.DaveinOlyWA said:
Anyone want me to ask any questions not covered in the press already before the show ends today at 4? This is assuming he’s still around.
The worker I spoke to previously (not from Japan) didn’t know and clearly wasn’t a Leaf driver.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Yeah Details on Nissan Energy. Is it standard or part of an options package?
Is it available on all trims?
How much is it?
Other than two way charging, is there any other functions ?
Is there any accessories specific to that function that is/will be available?
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
That might be tough. He may not know US marketing specific stuff.
He couldn’t comment on US e+ pricing (other than Japanese pricing which is already known) and it’s possible that even if he knew, he might not be allowed to say.
That might be tough. He may not know US marketing specific stuff.
He couldn’t comment on US e+ pricing (other than Japanese pricing which is already known) and it’s possible that even if he knew, he might not be allowed to say.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Been there, done that. These things rarely have anyone who knows anything beyond the press release but Nissan Power capability in the US is a HUGE thing... well to me it is so there must be "something"
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Yeah, ran into that re: folks not knowing beyond what was in the press release. Maybe I'll write about that or tell you another time. Was kinda annoying.
It related to the clearly non-Leaf driver when I asked them (a she) about the 11.5 hour charging time at 240 volts and the answer they "gave". :roll:
Not unexpectedly, the female rep who I spoke to earlier didn't know the answer to the price nor is it available on all trims. She only guessed that it would be n/a on cars w/o CHAdeMO (she referred to quick charge, not the name CHAdeMO) inlet. Her excuse on the lack of price or that info is that it's n/a in the US for now. At the same time, I can kinda understand. Perhaps it hasn't been decided or there are still negotiations going on with partners or marketing has intentionally decided to keep it under wraps for now and they likely have been given 0 info on it.
Sorry, forgot to ask the other stuff...
I did ask about the ground clearance (since someone took a pic of the underneath) and height. The Japanese guy mentioned the 5 mm increase in height. So, I asked about ground clearance. He said the e+ had 5 mm less ground clearance, so he confirmed a total of 10 mm difference. I asked about the SD card slot on the face of the head unit of the non-e+ sitting there vs. the e+ not having one. He didn't know the answer to that. He alluded to some country specific equipment differences. I wouldn't be surprised if the head units in Japan are different than US market ones.
I did briefly ask him about 100 kW charging then 70. He basically said 100 kW at the beginning and that they would need to ramp down for thermal reasons.
I also did ask if he was a Leaf engineer. His answer was something like he didn't work on Leaf but he can answer. I didn't catch his name but he was an older Japanese gentleman. First name began with an F.
I unfortunately didn't have any other thoughtful (or interesting to me) questions that I could ask that wasn't already covered by articles.
I did peek under the e+ vs. the 40 kWh Leaf on the show floor and really couldn't tell a difference in terms of how much the pack hangs down between the two, if any.
Yeah, ran into that re: folks not knowing beyond what was in the press release. Maybe I'll write about that or tell you another time. Was kinda annoying.
It related to the clearly non-Leaf driver when I asked them (a she) about the 11.5 hour charging time at 240 volts and the answer they "gave". :roll:
I couldn't find the Japanese guy again. Unfortunately, MNL went down after you asked.DaveinOlyWA said:
Not unexpectedly, the female rep who I spoke to earlier didn't know the answer to the price nor is it available on all trims. She only guessed that it would be n/a on cars w/o CHAdeMO (she referred to quick charge, not the name CHAdeMO) inlet. Her excuse on the lack of price or that info is that it's n/a in the US for now. At the same time, I can kinda understand. Perhaps it hasn't been decided or there are still negotiations going on with partners or marketing has intentionally decided to keep it under wraps for now and they likely have been given 0 info on it.
Sorry, forgot to ask the other stuff...
I did ask about the ground clearance (since someone took a pic of the underneath) and height. The Japanese guy mentioned the 5 mm increase in height. So, I asked about ground clearance. He said the e+ had 5 mm less ground clearance, so he confirmed a total of 10 mm difference. I asked about the SD card slot on the face of the head unit of the non-e+ sitting there vs. the e+ not having one. He didn't know the answer to that. He alluded to some country specific equipment differences. I wouldn't be surprised if the head units in Japan are different than US market ones.
I did briefly ask him about 100 kW charging then 70. He basically said 100 kW at the beginning and that they would need to ramp down for thermal reasons.
I also did ask if he was a Leaf engineer. His answer was something like he didn't work on Leaf but he can answer. I didn't catch his name but he was an older Japanese gentleman. First name began with an F.
I unfortunately didn't have any other thoughtful (or interesting to me) questions that I could ask that wasn't already covered by articles.
I did peek under the e+ vs. the 40 kWh Leaf on the show floor and really couldn't tell a difference in terms of how much the pack hangs down between the two, if any.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Hope this hasn't been posted already.
Nissan Announces LEAF e+ Prices For Europe And Japan
https://insideevs.com/nissan-announces-leaf-e-price-europe-japan/
Also, if you go to https://www3.nissan.co.jp/vehicles/new/leaf/specifications.html, you can click between the two versions to see the Japanese price difference between the various trims. Google makes for a good currency converter.
G trim (highest except for Nismo) 40 kWh is 3,999,240 yen.
e+ G trim 62 kWh is 4,729,320 yen.
Difference is 730,080 yen. Googling for 730080 jpy in usd currently returns about $6,759 USD.
Nissan Announces LEAF e+ Prices For Europe And Japan
https://insideevs.com/nissan-announces-leaf-e-price-europe-japan/
Also, if you go to https://www3.nissan.co.jp/vehicles/new/leaf/specifications.html, you can click between the two versions to see the Japanese price difference between the various trims. Google makes for a good currency converter.
G trim (highest except for Nismo) 40 kWh is 3,999,240 yen.
e+ G trim 62 kWh is 4,729,320 yen.
Difference is 730,080 yen. Googling for 730080 jpy in usd currently returns about $6,759 USD.
EatsShootsandLeafs
Well-known member
- Joined
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That's a lot for the range bump. But, what got my eye more than anything, is that Nissan is finally taking performance seriously. 200+ electric horsepower in car of this size officially moves the Leaf out of "peppy" territory into "quick" territory.cwerdna said:
I actually want a Leaf again, for the first time in years. Don't love the form factor (at all), but the rest is compelling.
golfcart
Well-known member
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
I am stoked about the 214hp as well. IMO the added range, horsepower, and torque combined with DC quick charging and phone integration being standard make a decent case for an S plus. Nissan bundles the 240V compatible EVSE with the 2019 "Charge Package (S)" for $1590 so you are already up to about $32k+ MSRP if you want a 40kWh leaf S with QC capabilities. Considering most of us want QC, I look at it more like an $3 - $4k more to get 65hp, 75 miles of range, and android auto...
OrientExpress
Well-known member
Here is an interesting tidbit about the LEAF Plus. Its motor is the same as in the regular LEAF, but has a more aggressive controller that gives it more power. This appears to be the same motor controller used in the Nismo variant of the LEAF in Japan, and that is available in the JDM as an accessory. It's not inconceivable that if the Nismo accessories were available in the US, that you could tune your current LEAF to have the added HP of the Plus model.
golfcart
Well-known member
OrientExpress said:
I bet the 40kWh model is a couple hundred pounds lighter than the Plus too, that'd be a hell of a modification. Reflashed ECU's are not uncommon on ICE cars so you never know...
BrockWI
Well-known member
I would image the the restriction in HP is more due to the pack's ability to supply the power necessary to push that HP. The 40 pack may not be able to push out that much power even if the controller / motor is asking for it, or maybe it can but warm the pack up more in spirited driving?
golfcart
Well-known member
^^^ That's a good point, there has to be a limit in the current the 40kWh pack can safely provide. I remember reading that the 40kWh NISMO leaf didn't actually have any more horsepower than the standard leaf anyways, it was mostly suspension and cosmetic differences with a slightly different tune giving it more "responsive" acceleration. I want the equivalent of a NOS button for my EV, not slightly more "responsive" acceleration.
BrockWI
Well-known member
It makes me wonder what the 60 pack is fused at compared to the 40. And actually I don't know what the 30 and 24 packs are fused at as well.
Kieran973
Well-known member
golfcart said:
I actually don't understand how Nissan thinks it can start the S Plus in the $36K range given that the base (SEL) Kona is $37.5K. The Kona has:
-32 more miles of range
-an LG Chem battery (vs. the Leaf's AESC battery)
-a liquid cooled TMS
-70 kW CCS charging that you can use right now (a lot of EA 100 kW stations in the Boston-D.C. corridor are already online; the remaining ones are scheduled to be complete by July; these stations have 4-10 CCS 100 kW plugs and only one 50 kW Chademo plug; yes, EA can upgrade the one Chademo plug to 100 kW, but then you'd still be relying in your long distance trips on charging stops where there's always only one plug - what if it's broken? So with the Leaf Plus, your best hope in the northeast would be to wait, probably years, for EVGO to upgrade its Chademo stations (many of which often do have 4-8 Chademo plugs) to 100 kW)
-a multi-link rear suspension (as opposed to the Leaf's torsion bar)
- standard rapid-charging (you have to pay $1590 for rapid-charging on the Leaf S, or upgrade to the SV)
-standard "semi-autonomous" safety tech, Hyundai Smart Sense (LKAS, ACC, etc.) - in the Leaf this is called Pro Pilot Assist and you have to pay $2,200 extra for the "tech package" in order to get it
All this is to say that if the Leaf Plus is going to seriously compete with the Kona Electric, then either:
1. The Leaf Plus has to start at like $31-$32K (or the actual price that you pay at dealerships has to be significantly below MSRP)
or
2. The Leaf Plus S has to be one impressively loaded base model. It would have to not only come standard with Pro Pilot Assist, but also offer some other, extremely generous standard features in order to make up for all the other advantages that the Kona seemingly has over it. Like, I'm talking: standard "All Weather Package" (heat pump, heated steering wheel and front seats), maybe 4-5 years of "No Charge to Charge", and I'm still not even sure that this would make up the difference. Honestly, I think the best bet would be to just mark the Leaf Plus way down (either officially through MSRP or unofficially at the dealership level)
Unless Nissan is thinking is that the Kona Electric is a compliance vehicle that, over the next two years, will only sell a couple hundred models in Southern California and therefore won't really be a competitor? Fair enough, but this was the Ioniq EV's story between 2017-2019, and still, even though the Ioniq had less range than the 40 kWh Leaf, and even though it didn't have any of the above advantages that the Kona has (besides 70 kW CCS fast charging), Nissan still felt compelled to not price the Leaf higher than the Ioniq - 40 kWh Leaf pricing still more or less tracked the Ioniq (both the base and loaded trims).
Or maybe Nissan is thinking that the Kona Electric is so compromised by its small size that no one will actually buy it? Again, fair enough, though the Ioniq has its own quite physical compromises (a long braking distance, a rear-windshield crossbar that is so much thicker seeming and so much more annoying to look at than any crossbar in any Prius ever), and yet, the 40 kWh Leaf's pricing has more or less tracked the Ioniq. Though, speaking of the Kona Electric's smallness, I'm going to contradict myself a little here and say that the Kona is a ridiculous vehicle. It's a platform based on deception. It's a car the size of a Honda Fit that's been stylized to look like an SUV. If it's a "family car", what family can fit in it? It's too small for rear facing car seats, so you better not have any kids under 4. There's no leg room in the back for anyone older than 12. So if you want to take your "family" of age 5-11 kids on a long distance trip and actually use some of that expensive range and fast charging speed, well guess what, there's no cargo space. I would actually bet money that you could fit more luggage in the trunk of an Elantra - unless you don't care about seeing out your back windshield. And honestly, I do think that if Hyundai was sincerely interested in making a mass market EV that wasn't just greenwashing, then they would have put the Kona Electric's power-train in either the Sonata or the Tucson. Those are viable platforms for mass market adoption, but no one is even buying the ICE version of the Kona - the Tucson outsold it 3 to 1 in 2018. Because really, what mass of people were going to buy the Kona? "Hip" "young people" who "like funky cars" and don't like knowing a car's numerical specifications? All the hip young people I know don't want to own any cars - they want to own subway passes, and maybe an electric scooter. Anyway, I'm rambling now, but to bring this somewhat back on point, if the Kia Niro EV really does come in at $38K - that car being a significantly more spacious and therefore more viable subcompact CUV than the Kona - then I don't see how the Leaf Plus could start at $35-37K (including delivery), given that the Niro will have all the advantages of the Kona listed above....
cwerdna
Well-known member
As I've said it before many times, I'm highly skeptical about all the Kona EV and Niro EV buzz until we see the vehicles available widely in the US and in quantity, not the near vaporware So Cal only status of the Ioniq EV.Kieran973 said:
I just saw this posted at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/2284550154909742/?comment_id=2284563001575124&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D and it sounds like what I guessed might be right.
WA dealer is saying it will be *years* before they get any up there. CA first and Oregon next.
It cracks me up when people outside CA talk about such vehicles, and even more so if they don't live in CARB emissions state.