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evnow
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:59 pm

OrientExpress wrote:What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?

Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1340
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:05 pm

evnow wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?

Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.


Agreed. We need more options. I doubt I'll buy another BEV with less than 200-mile range. But that's because I want it to be more than just a commuter. If others are happy with a BEV commuter + a gasser/PHEV/rental/etc for trips, then probably 150 miles is all they will need.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

webeleafowners
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Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:25 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
evnow wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?

Definitely options are good.

Let people pay more if they want more range. $30k, 150 mile may be the best seller, even if $35k 200 miles option exists.


Agreed. We need more options. I doubt I'll buy another BEV with less than 200-mile range. But that's because I want it to be more than just a commuter. If others are happy with a BEV commuter + a gasser/PHEV/rental/etc for trips, then probably 150 miles is all they will need.



Exactly. It will depend on where we are in life in 4 years. If we are really just on the retirement cusp we would look for something with a longer range. If not, anything over 100 miles is just kind of a waste. 150 would be nice I suppose and it would take one fast charge out of the only longer trip we take....once per year. But I sure wouldn't be paying more for 200 or 300 or whatever.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

EVftw
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Leaf Number: 421140

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:04 pm

“So many of our dreams at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we summon the will, they soon become inevitable.” - Christopher Reeve

rmay635703
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm



Sounds like a gas free volt 2 motors, cooling system and all

ydnas7
Posts: 572
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:20 pm

something old something new something borrowed something blue

old - the lower pack case from LEAF 1
new - 60kWh of cells (different carbon, different oxides, different dimension etc etc etc)
borrowed - some tech from LG presumably
blue - colour scheme for the background screen

Image

yes its from a year ago, but it shows Nissan philosophy perfectly, its a bit like grandpa's axe, yes the handle is changed, so is the axe head, but its still is grandpa's axe.

New LEAF 2 will really look like a mere facelifted LEAF 1. but, Just that nearly everything will be physically different.

strange how Nissan rolls like that.

That early battery profile does appear that internal leg room should increase for the back occupant, and that the rear roofline needs to stay high.

Stoaty
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:15 pm

OrientExpress wrote:Can you talk a little bit more about why a 200+ battery is so important, and not the option of a 150 mile or a 200+ mile battery?

What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?

$36K for 215 mile car. I drive 140 miles round trip most Saturdays with up to 5,000 feet elevation gain and 2-3 people in the car. With 215 mile car I could make the trip even after some capacity loss, use of AC, etc.
Lifetime 5.5 m/kWh (Dash) over 57,200 miles / 67 months
Capacity Loss Predicted - 27.4% Actual - 30.1%
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

Reddy
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:34 pm

OrientExpress wrote:What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
We seem to forget that a large segment of the population cannot afford a $40,000 vehicle. I think Nissan would provide a great service by pushing down the costs even more. I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL. So , I vote for the 150 mi (48 KWh battery) under $30K, preferably $25K. Put the 200-250 mi (60 KWh battery) in the higher trims, and charge a premium ($35-40K). Heck, there are still lots of people who can't afford a $10K used Leaf, but still want to get off gas. Personally, I'm looking forward to the $15K, 250 mi, version.
Reddy
2011 SL; 10 bar, 48.82 AHr; 35,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

ydnas7
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:47 pm

Reddy wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:What would be more preferable, an under $30K 150 mile car or a $36K 215 mile car?
We seem to forget that a large segment of the population cannot afford a $40,000 vehicle. I think Nissan would provide a great service by pushing down the costs even more. I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL. So , I vote for the 150 mi (48 KWh battery) under $30K, preferably $25K. Put the 200-250 mi (60 KWh battery) in the higher trims, and charge a premium ($35-40K). Heck, there are still lots of people who can't afford a $10K used Leaf, but still want to get off gas. Personally, I'm looking forward to the $15K, 250 mi, version.


Nissan's incremental cost per kWh will be substantially less than GM's $145 deal from LG. so lets pick a number say $120/kWh
pack stays the same, no cell cooling costs, so a 40kWh version saves Nissan 60-40=20kWh x $120 or about $2400.

The lease residual makes this a no brainer, 60kWh is the default.

Of course if Nissan is cell constrained, then they can sell 3x40 kWh cars instead of 2 x 60kWh cars, so perhaps for the first couple of years of gen 2, there may be 40kWh cars, until cell capacity is ramped up.

Nissan'a 40kWh car is a Renault, American's need not apply.
Renaults may get 40kWh at say a GMish $145 = 42kWh x $145 = $6,090
vs
Nissan 60kWh x $120 = $7,200
only $1,100 difference

LeftieBiker
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:06 pm

I don't know actual numbers, but the lower priced S seemed to sell better than the SV or SL.


Just going by what I've read here, and seen in searching dealer stock, it appears to me that the best selling Leaf models are, in descending order:

SV with Premium Package

SL with premium Package

S with Charge Package

SV/SL without Premium

S without Charge Package.


Actual sales numbers will be different, because both the S, and the SV without Premium get discounted heavily, and sell, eventually, but the above is based on how fast models sell, not just on how many sell when the price is slashed. It is, admittedly, just an semi-educated guess, but I usually have a feel for these things. Anyway, based on the above, I think that many people want a combination of good price and good features, while many others look for one feature combined with lowest price. The latter would be the S with Charge Package. So if Nissan wants to compete on price, they should build the S with QC and 6.6kw charger, and 30kwh pack. If they want to compete on price and features, a $36k SV with Premium and 60kwh pack should be a winner. If they can sell the loaded SL for much less than the Bolt Premiere, that too should work.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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