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evnow
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:33 pm

OrientExpress wrote:
evnow wrote:To me this is one more indication that Gen 2 Leaf won't start with a 60 kwh battery option.


What do you think about that?

Nissan keeps saying we'll have a really large range EV later (in 2020 etc). Why would they say that, if they are going to bring a 60 kWh, 230 EPA range EV in 6 months ? Not like people are really looking for that 300 mile range and 230 mile won't be attractive enough.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:32 pm

Nissan keeps saying we'll have a really large range EV later (in 2020 etc). Why would they say that, if they are going to bring a 60 kWh, 230 EPA range EV in 6 months ? Not like people are really looking for that 300 mile range and 230 mile won't be attractive enough.


I don't understand this. Are you talking about 230 miles on the EU range test? If not, don't expect much more than 150 actual miles from a 40kwh pack. That will be fine for me, but not for many others.
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OrientExpress
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:55 pm

What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and a few optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?
Last edited by OrientExpress on Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jhm614
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:59 pm

OrientExpress wrote:What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and an optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?

I would think 40kWh at Sept launch - 60kWh 'orderable' at launch but possibly with delayed availability and then a much larger battery (80kWh?) in 2019 / 2020.

edit: I think my preference would be the 40kWh but could be tempted by a 60kWh with a great price.
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:52 am

OrientExpress wrote:What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and a few optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?


Once you go above 24kWh, my preference for a battery size is inversely proportional to the density of QCs. The more QCs around, the smaller the battery I want/need. Given the current lack of non-supercharger QCs here, the bigger the better. I'd be happy with a 50kWh Model 3, but would want at least 60-70kWh in a Leaf.
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webeleafowners
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:55 pm

jhm614 wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:What would you think of a standard battery bigger than 30kWh but smaller than 70kWh, and an optional battery choices larger than 50kwh?

I would think 40kWh at Sept launch - 60kWh 'orderable' at launch but possibly with delayed availability and then a much larger battery (80kWh?) in 2019 / 2020.

edit: I think my preference would be the 40kWh but could be tempted by a 60kWh with a great price.


Yah, you nailed it for us. 40 KWH is all we would need (our 30 KWH actually covers it) but with the right price I would look at the math...I suppose. More range would not be a seller for us and it would have to be not expensive to go bigger or really it is just kind of throwing away money.
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:12 am

An advantage of a large kWh battery pack even if you don't need it will be longer life of the battery pack due to it being charged/discharged less, and when it is discharged, to a lower depth of discharge. A 60kWh battery pack that has 75% capacity remaining still offers a lot of range of 180 miles, while 75% remaining on a 40kWh is 120 miles. Even when it gets down to 50% capacity, the 60kWh would offer 120 mile range, versus the 80 mile range of the 40kWh at 50%. That will improve resale values as the usability of the vehicle still remains, years later.
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evnow
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:35 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: I don't understand this. Are you talking about 230 miles on the EU range test? If not, don't expect much more than 150 actual miles from a 40kwh pack. That will be fine for me, but not for many others.

Nope - EPA (or as Nissan CEO says - real life).

If we are going to get a long range (i.e. > 200 miles) Leaf in Sept, they wouldn't talk about a 300 mile Leaf coming in 2020. Would they ?
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evnow
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Durandal wrote:An advantage of a large kWh battery pack even if you don't need it will be longer life of the battery pack due to it being charged/discharged less, and when it is discharged, to a lower depth of discharge. A 60kWh battery pack that has 75% capacity remaining still offers a lot of range of 180 miles, while 75% remaining on a 40kWh is 120 miles. Even when it gets down to 50% capacity, the 60kWh would offer 120 mile range, versus the 80 mile range of the 40kWh at 50%. That will improve resale values as the usability of the vehicle still remains, years later.


Add to that cold weather, high way speed hits. Even a 200 mile EV becomes a 150 mile EV with no degradation. 40 kWh would be < 100 miles.

All this talk of whether 40 kwh or 60 kwh is "enough" reminds me of those days when we were thinking whether 1GB RAM was enough.

Hopefully in a few years 60 kWh is cheap enough for EVs around $15k. I think good range for US is 3 hours of highway driving in winter, with 20% buffer. This way you fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes and off you go for 3 more hours. About 400 miles EPA.

All this assuming, we won't have a nuke war soon.
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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:03 pm

It will be curious how the 40kWh is any different than my 30kWh LEAF, other than the obvious. I suspect that it charges at the same 125 amp / "50kW" as previous LEAFs.

Delaying the 60kWh LEAF is not a smart move in my view. Should they offer a significantly larger battery, I suspect the 60kWh will merely be software limited. This will more easily allow the "150kW" charging that has been promised by Nissan for the LEAF v2.

As all things Nissan, and unlike the Chevy Bolt EV, the "60kWh" battery LEAF will likely not be 60kWh that are usable. Maybe 55kWh, which is about where the Tesla Model 3 base car will be.

I foresee the following:

1) Nissan LEAF v2 w/60kWh - 4 miles/kWh@65mph - 55kWh usable * 4 = 220 miles EPA

2) Nissan LEAF v2 w/40kWh - 4.1 miles/kWh@65mph - 36.5kWh usable * 4 = 150 miles EPA

Whatever Nissan says they might do in 2020 or beyond (like "300 mile range") is always subject to change, no matter how intent they may be today. I cannot imagine a 40kWh LEAF charging faster than 200 amps (about 70kW max), however, I'm confident that the 60kWh car will indeed charge up to 300 amps (about 100kW max). If Nissan has that "300 mile" LEAF in 2020, it will likely need to be an 80-85kWh battery at 3.9kWh per mile,

3) GM Bolt EV w/60kWh - 4 miles/kWh@65mph - 60kWh usable * 4 = 238 miles EPA

4) GM Bolt EV w/40kWh (easy to do with the current 96s * 3p configuration) 40 * 4 = 160 miles EPA

5) Tesla Model 3 w/50kWh - 4.5 miles/kWh@65mph - 48kWh usable * 4.5 = 215 miles EPA

6) Tesla Model 3 w/75kWh - 4.3 miles/kWh@65mph - 72kWh usable * 4.4 = 310 miles EPA

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