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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:54 pm
by GetOffYourGas
o00scorpion00o wrote:you can't fit an adult in the rear of the Leaf with 2 Child seats for instance and the boot is crap.


I disagree on both accounts. I have personally ridden in the back of a Leaf between my two children in their carseats. I'm not huge, but I'm not tiny. I fit just fine. I wouldn't want to go far, but then again the Leaf can't go very far to begin with. I would be fine for an hour or so riding back there.

And the boot (or the trunk, here in America), is huge for this class of car. It easily swallows tons of stuff. I regularly fill it with trips to the bulk discount stores. I have taken it camping. I've had a lot of stuff in that trunk. Sure, it's vertical which requires some practice to be able to pack well. But once you figure it out, it works just fine. I've fit things in the Leaf that my mother couldn't figure out how to fit in her CR-V, which is nominally a bigger car.

If the interior of the 2018 Leaf is the same as the current Leaf, I would be content. Heck, even if it's a little smaller, say shorter to get better aero, that's just fine with me.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:28 am
by alozzy
@OrientExpress

Toyota sold over 355,000 Camry's in the USA in 2016. Nissan sold 14,000 Leafs in the USA in 2016 - 4% of Camry sales. What other EV model does Nissan sell into the US market? Um, none. Still waiting on the arrival of the e-NV200...

A little more than half of US EVs in 2016 were sold in California. No other states are even close.

So, I don't know how anyone can reasonably argue that any car manufacturer, including Nissan, is doing a good job of informing and attracting potential US buyers given these pathetic numbers:

Image

If you exclude the Leaf, Tesla Model S, and Model X from the BEV sales there were only 25,000 BEVs sold by all other manufacturers combined in 2016. Remove the BMW i3, Fiat 500e, VW e-Golf, and Chevy Spark sales then that number drops to less than 10,000. So, basically only Tesla, Nissan, BMW, Fiat, VW, and Chevy have made any sort of effort.

Exhibit A RE lousy marketing: what was with the "Kick Gas" campaign that Nissan launched? Talk about confused messaging. It's like going up to a kid and saying, "I hear you like candy, so here's some free candy. By the way, we sell really healthy granola - want some?". Yup, that's gonna work...

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:08 am
by dgpcolorado
GetOffYourGas wrote:...Heck, even if it's a little smaller, say shorter to get better aero, that's just fine with me.
A longer car generally has better aerodynamics than a shorter car, other things, such as frontal area, being equal.

Like you, I was quite pleased with the interior space of the current LEAF. No complaints from me.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:51 am
by dgpcolorado
OrientExpress wrote:...As far as Tesla goes, the cracks in their strategy are starting to show, as they missed their manufacturing startup goal yesterday for start of Model 3 production.
First production Model 3

Your Nissan colored glasses seem to be distorting your vision. For some of us — hoping that EVs become successful and displace ICEVs — the more EV models on the market, the better. I'm hoping that LEAF 2 is a great success. As well as the Model 3, Bolt, and all the rest.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:58 am
by DaveinOlyWA
OrientExpress wrote:...As far as Tesla goes, the cracks in their strategy are starting to show, as they missed their manufacturing startup goal yesterday for start of Model 3 production.
First production Model 3

Rare is the entity that did not stumble a bit negotiating their first steps. But its not the journey we are judged on but the destination. Is this right? As like most, not completely but it does hold considerable more validity than first day evaluations.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:08 pm
by GetOffYourGas
dgpcolorado wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:...Heck, even if it's a little smaller, say shorter to get better aero, that's just fine with me.
A longer car generally has better aerodynamics than a shorter car, other things, such as frontal area, being equal.

Like you, I was quite pleased with the interior space of the current LEAF. No complaints from me.


To be clear, when I said "shorter", I meant height and not length. Ideally, shorter (height) and longer (length) would result in the same interior volume with much better aero.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:14 am
by OrientExpress
dgpcolorado wrote:For some of us — hoping that EVs become successful and displace ICEVs — the more EV models on the market, the better. I'm hoping that LEAF 2 is a great success. As well as the Model 3, Bolt, and all the rest.


Yes, welcome to the common goal. The move to electrified motive transportation is inevitable, and those that do not jump on the bandwagon, are doomed to irrelevance.

The question today is if Tesla will be a long-term leader in that movement or just a historical anecdote like Bricklin or Tucker.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:44 am
by DNAinaGoodWay
If? LOL. Is. And soon to be sales leader, leaving all the foot dragging ICE OEMs in the dust. The timing didn't work for my current lease cycle, so I'll have to lease one more time from a dealership, then Tesla.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:50 am
by OrientExpress
DNAinaGoodWay wrote:If? LOL. Is. And soon to be sales leader, leaving all the foot dragging ICE OEMs in the dust. The timing didn't work for my current lease cycle, so I'll have to lease one more time from a dealership, then Tesla.


And just like every other infatuation, they burn bright but have a short life on borrowed money. The next 18 months will be telling for Tesla. At the end of the day, the smart money is on the veteran players. It's not a question of if there is a transformation of personal transportation from petroleum powered vehicles to electrification, that has already been decided. The real question is how will be how the industry and infrastructure capitalize on this trend.

Despite Tesla's noble intentions (and they have raised awareness of EVs with the masses to their credit), it's questionable if they have what it takes to be a consistent sausage maker that can churn out a quality value product day after day.

Their current products are mediocre in just about every metric from quality, manufacturing, to value. Their biggest strength is their bravado and being able to nurture a following that desperately wants to believe and is happy not to look behind the curtain.

What they have done is awakened a market that is now ripe for the taking by the established players. Every one of the major players worldwide will have a product in the next 3 years whose goal is to be a superior BEV by every measurement. As a Tesla stockholder, it will be great if the Tesla story then will be about their great technology and sales advances, rather than their spectacular crash and burn.

Let's have this conversation again in 2020 - 2021 and see how things turn out.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:15 pm
by DNAinaGoodWay
They certainly take more risk, starting up, building out, and all without an ICE fallback. Most folks don't know Leaf or Bolt, but they all Tesla. If only the old line showed that daring.