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OrientExpress
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Posts: 1213
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:30 pm

Here is some good guesses from what has already been revealed

1. Will the Leaf have uncomfortable seats?
No
2. Will the Leaf have cheap hard plastic interior?
No
3. Will the Leaf be bigger?
It will certainly be wider, and probably longer
4. Will the Leaf have better performance?
0-60 probably be 7-8 sec. not as fast as Bolt or Tesla, but respectable
5. Will the Leaf have higher efficiency? Better aerodynamics? Cost less per mile driven?
Probably
6. Stop and go cruise control? Adaptive cruise control?
Yes
7. Embedded android auto with always listening Google Assistant
Android Auto & CarPlay
8. Navigation system?
Probably, but why when you have AA and Apple CP.
9. Luxury features like multiple fast USB chargers throughout cabin?
Maybe
10. 150 kW fast charging speed?
No not yet. No supporting infrastructure in the US yet. Maybe in 2020.
11. Better utilization of floor space? Don't take up valuable space with a shifter.
The car will have a full length center console.
12. Dual drive system?
No
13. Lane keep assist? ProPilot.
Yes
14. Very unlikely, but would be nice if Nissan took the dealer hassle out and allowed ordering online.
Rumor has it that first buyers will be able to reserve online, but will still need to complete the purchase at a dealer.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:45 pm

Several reviews are now available from the ProPilot Assist Preview event.

The best one I've read is linked below:

Nissan ProPilot Assist Preview - It's Automated But Not Self-Driving

...While we won’t get to see the new Leaf sans camouflage until September 5, Nissan did invite a group of media to its Farmington Hills, Mich. engineering center to sample some Rogues equipped with the ProPilot Assist system. Nissan calls this a level 2 (L2) automation system because it is capable of doing coordinated longitudinal and lateral control. That means it can handle acceleration, braking and steering. What it doesn’t do is let the driver climb into the back seat to take a nap, or relax and watch a movie.

...the Nissan system explicitly requires drivers to keep at least one hand on the wheel at all times. A torque sensor in the steering wheel looks for small motions indicative of a driver holding the wheel or resistance to automatic steering motions. If the system decides that the driver doesn’t have a reasonably firm grip on the wheel after five to ten seconds it gives an audible warning and flashes an alert in the instrument cluster. Five seconds later, the alerts get progressively more insistent.

Ten seconds after that, it will automatically pulse the brakes a couple of times trying to get your attention. After 25 to 30 seconds with no sign the driver is responding, ProPilot will start slowing the vehicle and when speed drops below 40 mph, the hazard lights are turned on. Without intervention from the driver, the car will come to a complete stop in its lane...

If you try to nudge the car over to one side or the either without a turn signal on, you’ll feel the system trying to steer back to the center of the lane. Like other lane keeping systems, it’s relatively easy to overpower since it is designed as an assist, not to take over from the human driver. The forward facing radar tracks the vehicle ahead and maintains a consistent gap up to whatever speed you set. The graphics in the instrument cluster show when a vehicle is detected within range and the lane markers go from grey to green when markings are detected consistently on both sides of the car.

From a functional standpoint, the system seemed to work very well within the constraints of what it is designed to do. When lanes were detected, ProPilot did a very good job of keeping the Rogue tracking the center without bouncing back and forth. The stretch of I-696 north of Detroit that we tested on features of a number of curves of varying radius as well as overpasses that saw us go from bright sunshine to dark shadow...

Based on our early preview, ProPilot Assist is a good step in the direction of making driving in traffic or long trips easier and safer. As Carlos Ghosn promised earlier this year, it will get better every year until it reaches at least L4. But it’s not self-driving yet and Nissan wants customers to understand that before they try to do anything foolish.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsa ... 702d6c568b

ProPilot is not on my must-have list at this point, but it probably would be if I drove most of my miles on freeways, and especially so if much of that freeway time was spent in heavy traffic.
no condition is permanent

webb14leafs
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:38 am

I would rather have a 40kWhr battery with a 150kW charging rate than a 60kW battery with a standard charging rate.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:15 am

Nissan keeps stating that ProPilot will keep getting better over time. My question to Nissan is: will the 2018 Leaf be software upgradable or will the improvements only be for newer model years? I don't care if it's not OTA, or free. I just want to know if I can buy a 2018 Leaf and get the improved ProPilot in 2020.

From Nissan's history, I'm guessing you'd have to buy a whole new Leaf.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1213
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:47 am

webb14leafs wrote:I would rather have a 40kWhr battery with a 150kW charging rate than a 60kW battery with a standard charging rate.


And where would you find a 150kW charger to use? There is only one unit in the US that is Sandboxed. Until there is public charging infrastructure to use that capability, it's just a boat anchor.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

DanCar
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:59 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:Nissan keeps stating that ProPilot will keep getting better over time. My question to Nissan is: will the 2018 Leaf be software upgradable or will the improvements only be for newer model years? ...
Nissan is using Mobileye technology and mobile eye says new chips are required for increased levels of autonomy. Chips used in Tesla AP1 where eyeq3. EyeQ4 is coming, and EyeQ5 is needed for sleeping in your car while it drives you.
https://www.mobileye.com/our-technology ... eyeq-chip/
Quote:
The EyeQ®4 is the most advanced application-specific vision computing SoC currently available on the market, with a computing performance, as mentioned, eight times higher than its predecessor, the EyeQ®3. It has the capacity to process data from more than eight camera sensors, in addition to radars and LiDARs, processing 2.5 trillion operations per second while drawing only 3-5 Watts. The EyeQ®4 will launch in car models starting late 2017.

lorenfb
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:22 am

DanCar wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Nissan keeps stating that ProPilot will keep getting better over time. My question to Nissan is: will the 2018 Leaf be software upgradable or will the improvements only be for newer model years? ...
Nissan is using Mobileye technology and mobile eye says new chips are required for increased levels of autonomy. Chips used in Tesla AP1 where eyeq3. EyeQ4 is coming, and EyeQ5 is needed for sleeping in your car while it drives you.
https://www.mobileye.com/our-technology ... eyeq-chip/
Quote:
The EyeQ®4 is the most advanced application-specific vision computing SoC currently available on the market, with a computing performance, as mentioned, eight times higher than its predecessor, the EyeQ®3. It has the capacity to process data from more than eight camera sensors, in addition to radars and LiDARs, processing 2.5 trillion operations per second while drawing only 3-5 Watts. The EyeQ®4 will launch in car models starting late 2017.


That's one of the reasons, i.e. increased processor capability, that Tesla switched from using MobilEye processors to Nvidia
processors in late 2016. Tesla charged owners for that upgrade. Updated processors (hardware vs firmware) will usually
be required as major changes, i.e. the AI capabilities, increase. So the implication over time will be that OEMs may have minor
firmware re-flashes (tweaks), e.g. OTA, but major upgrades will usually occur with model changes.
Leaf SL MY 9/13: 66K miles, 50 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 charges to 100% > 1000, max battery temp < 95F (35C), min discharge point > 20 Ahrs

webb14leafs
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:14 am

OrientExpress wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:I would rather have a 40kWhr battery with a 150kW charging rate than a 60kW battery with a standard charging rate.


And where would you find a 150kW charger to use? There is only one unit in the US that is Sandboxed. Until there is public charging infrastructure to use that capability, it's just a boat anchor.


Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make, but yes, you are correct that there are not a lot of 150kW chargers yet.

I still prefer a smaller battery with faster recharge, and this is the direction I would like to see the industry go. Use smaller batteries to keep the price of EVs down and upgrade the charging infrastructure. If you bought a brand new car today and in 2 years there were a number of 150kW chargers that you couldn't take advantage of, you might be a little upset.

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 619
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:18 am

The 165 mile range is a WAG - that number could easily be a trip odometer.

User avatar
DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 2765
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:43 am
Delivery Date: 03 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:50 am

webb14leafs wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:I would rather have a 40kWhr battery with a 150kW charging rate than a 60kW battery with a standard charging rate.


And where would you find a 150kW charger to use? There is only one unit in the US that is Sandboxed. Until there is public charging infrastructure to use that capability, it's just a boat anchor.


Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make, but yes, you are correct that there are not a lot of 150kW chargers yet.

I still prefer a smaller battery with faster recharge, and this is the direction I would like to see the industry go. Use smaller batteries to keep the price of EVs down and upgrade the charging infrastructure. If you bought a brand new car today and in 2 years there were a number of 150kW chargers that you couldn't take advantage of, you might be a little upset.


I had a 2012 SL for a full year before the first QCs started showing up here. Some people who opted out of the QC port were a little upset then.
Higher power QCs are definitely in the works so having a car that can use them will be advantageous when they arrive.
If only Nissan was as proactive as Tesla in that regard.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

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