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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:24 am
by DaveinOlyWA
OrientExpress wrote:
SageBrush wrote: I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan
Or they don't understand the risk in buying into a new 1st generation technology is a shared responsibility and that there will always be teething issues that may take time to solve.
not only first generation tech but a transpo option that ONLY filled a niche. Some of us can do that but most of us cannot. I leased because I could....to a degree. But my transportation need changed since April 2010. Changed a lot.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:26 am
by evnow
SageBrush wrote:I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan
I'm not. You can go back and read the thousands of posts on this subject in 2010/11.

The funny thing is they didn't believe Nissan ! They thought if you leased, Nissan could take away the cars like GM did with EV1.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:37 am
by SageBrush
evnow wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan
I'm not. You can go back and read the thousands of posts on this subject in 2010/11.

The funny thing is they didn't believe Nissan ! They thought if you leased, Nissan could take away the cars like GM did with EV1.
The two are different.

People thought Nissan might change corporate strategy and stop supporting the LEAF.
You can be sure they bought the car thinking the battery would last more than a couple of years and they had Nissan telling them the battery would retain 70-80% capacity in 10 years.

People can sugar coat all they want, Nissan is a corporate liar and their follow-up act was to obstruct and then stone-wall ... all the way up to the last 12 months or so. And now we have the 30 kWh generation which so far is just as crappy as Nissan battery technology (perhaps worse) was five years ago. And it is compounded by some evidence that Nissan has changed the battery bar thresholds to devalue their warranty.

Get the car if you like; buy it for all I care. But for heaven's sake do not obfuscate or try to hide the truth. You would just be helping Nissan screw yet another generation of customers. As an EV advocate it only makes sense to hold Nissan to a reasonable standard of battery quality and corporate ethic. Currently Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:05 am
by edatoakrun
evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
SageBrush wrote:...Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.
I suppose that's why the Gen one LEAF is the worlds best-selling BEV...?

Back on-topic.

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:31 am
by Joe6pack
Sage - Why don't you just go away. Go back to Tesla Motors Club and cheerlead with the rest of the cult. We're tired of hearing your negativity. Get lost.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:42 am
by EVDRIVER
edatoakrun wrote:evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
SageBrush wrote:...Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.
I suppose that's why the Gen one LEAF is the worlds best-selling BEV...?

Back on-topic.

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.
Non of that disproves how dishonest Nissan is, anyone that has followed the LEAF closely knows they lied and covered up everything. Nissan is pretty bad. Best selling is mitigated by many factors and is more a result of first to market and the delay of the issues surfacing. Don't expect Nissan to keep holding this title. Nissan in many ways did give EVs a bad name, intentional or not they handled it like a true corporation, save ass at the customer's expense. I'll reserve my judgement when I see the new LEAF in person this month.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:45 am
by lorenfb
SageBrush wrote:
evnow wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm leery of ascribing emotions to an entire group when a simple explanation exists: they believed Nissan
I'm not. You can go back and read the thousands of posts on this subject in 2010/11.

The funny thing is they didn't believe Nissan ! They thought if you leased, Nissan could take away the cars like GM did with EV1.
The two are different.

People thought Nissan might change corporate strategy and stop supporting the LEAF.
You can be sure they bought the car thinking the battery would last more than a couple of years and they had Nissan telling them the battery would retain 70-80% capacity in 10 years.

People can sugar coat all they want, Nissan is a corporate liar and their follow-up act was to obstruct and then stone-wall ... all the way up to the last 12 months or so. And now we have the 30 kWh generation which so far is just as crappy as Nissan battery technology (perhaps worse) was five years ago. And it is compounded by some evidence that Nissan has changed the battery bar thresholds to devalue their warranty.

Get the car if you like; buy it for all I care. But for heaven's sake do not obfuscate or try to hide the truth. You would just be helping Nissan screw yet another generation of customers. As an EV advocate it only makes sense to hold Nissan to a reasonable standard of battery quality and corporate ethic. Currently Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.
Really surprised you bought a used Leaf, especially after joining this forum and doing "due diligence" prior to your
purchase, e.g. even utilizing LeafSpy. Implicit in your posts is that you view your Leaf, i.e. > 3yrs old, purchased
for less than $8K, with near new battery capacity (59 - 61 Ahrs), and no necessary repairs, as a marginal purchase.
Sorry for your naivety and misfortune.

Hopefully, when your Model 3 arrives, you'll donate your Leaf and not feel that you 'scammed' the buyer as you feel
that Nissan 'scammed' early BEV adopters. Besides, when you have to order a $50K+ Model 3 to receive delivery prior
to 2020, a few $K from a '13 Leaf sale hardly offsets that, right?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:09 pm
by OrientExpress
edatoakrun wrote:evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
SageBrush wrote:...Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.
I suppose that's why the Gen one LEAF is the worlds best-selling BEV...?

Back on-topic.

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.
I can't speak for the others, but I am one of the first 2011 LEAF users, am on my second LEAF now, and expect to be on my third one by the end of the year. My only sin is that I did my due diligence regarding the risks of a new product and technology and chose to lease vs. buy. I also believe that the Nissan-Renault-Mitsubishi Alliance will continue to be the largest producers of EVs in the world.

Like you I find the continued whining about things that happened years ago juvenile and counter productive and I wish those that continue to harp on it would either stop or leave.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:52 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
edatoakrun wrote:evnow, DaveinOlyWA, OrientExpress, SageBrush:

Not only are all your recent comments off-topic, you are bickering over long-term battery degradation of Gen one LEAFs, which it appears none of you (not having owned and driven a single LEAF since the introduction) are really informed to discuss, based on your own experience.
SageBrush wrote:...Nissan gives EVs a horrible name.
I suppose that's why the Gen one LEAF is the worlds best-selling BEV...?

Back on-topic.

I expect the Gen two LEAF to be the world's best-selling BEV, in 2018.
LOL!!! OMG... where have u been? FYI; my LEAF # was waaaaaaaay below yours!

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:38 pm
by LeftieBiker
The apparent rapid capacity loss that some folks are seeing with the 30kwh packs makes the complaints about gen 1 pack losses a little too relevant for comfort. People thinking about getting a 2018 Leaf who will need most or all of its rated range need to be warned that it may be a poor gamble...