GetOffYourGas
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Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 6:27 am

Leaf S: 30kWh
Leaf SV/SL: 60kWh

The SV/SL battery will not be the same physical size as the Gen 1. We're just not going to see double the density. The 25% improvement in density we'll reportedly see in 2016 is what we'll get for Gen 2. Nissan will double the size of the "battery box" envelope for Leaf 2. The S will have the same battery as the 2016 SV/SL, but the cells will be rearranged to fit the shape of the new envelope. The SV/SL will simply have double the number of cells compared to the S.

All just my opinion/expectation of course.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

asimba2
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Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2014
Location: Northern CA

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 7:16 am

I don't see the LEAF getting a battery larger than 50 kW. I would love to be wrong.

S - 30 kW
SV - 30 kW; optional 50 kW
SL - 50 kW

rmay635703
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 7:21 am

My guess is
24kw
30kw
36kw

The easiest way to get more range is a lower CDa, the leaf has loads of low hanging fruit.

In fact there is already a car on the road that goes 200 miles on 33kw, well known in fact so it isn't that complex to get range.

Now getting it packaged for Mericans to drive is another thing.

Ah well.

Bazooka
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Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 7:27 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:Leaf S: 30kWh
Leaf SV/SL: 60kWh

The SV/SL battery will not be the same physical size as the Gen 1. We're just not going to see double the density. The 25% improvement in density we'll reportedly see in 2016 is what we'll get for Gen 2. Nissan will double the size of the "battery box" envelope for Leaf 2. The S will have the same battery as the 2016 SV/SL, but the cells will be rearranged to fit the shape of the new envelope. The SV/SL will simply have double the number of cells compared to the S.

All just my opinion/expectation of course.


Strongly agree. I can't see Nissan using more than two different battery packs across their EV lines (Leaf, LE, NV) in the next generation of vehicles. There simply won't be enough volume to support the R&D and distribution costs. Similarly, they'll tie pack size to trim level, so you won't be able to opt for, say, and S with the larger pack (even though I would love to have that option).

One of the big questions is whether they'll offer the 30kWh pack as an upgrade for older Leafs. It would fit, and I suspect the minimal software updates wouldn't be a problem, but it raises the issue of how Nissan sees itself -- are they a car company or are they, with respect to this one model, a battery company, ala Tesla. Again, I'd like to see them offer the pack at cost plus a minimal markup, if only to generate a huge amount of positive PR, but I doubt they'll do it, and not just because the logistics of upgrading the packs would be a challenge. (Would you want your local dealer swapping that humongous pack? I sure wouldn't.)

Sublime
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Delivery Date: 23 Jan 2013

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 8:23 am

rmay635703 wrote:My guess is
24kw
30kw
36kw

The easiest way to get more range is a lower CDa, the leaf has loads of low hanging fruit.

In fact there is already a car on the road that goes 200 miles on 33kw, well known in fact so it isn't that complex to get range.

Now getting it packaged for Mericans to drive is another thing.

Ah well.


I'm sure Gen2 will put a large emphasis on aerodynamics, motor efficiency, and component consolidation. For that reason, I think we'll see (EPA range):
S - 30kWh (~110 mi range)
SV/SL 42kWh (~160 mi range)
Infiniti LE 60kWh (~210 mi range)

NeilBlanchard
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Leaf Number: 306278

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 9:51 am

My hope for the Leaf 2 is that they lower the Cd from 0.29 to (at least) 0.24, which should increase the range by 25 miles or so - on the same battery pack capacity it has now. If they can lower it to ~0.21, then the range could be ~50 miles longer than the current Leaf on the same battery capacity.

This is essentially "free" improvement to the range.

I also hope they use a direct heating windshield defroster - one that is robust enough to melt ice and frost and freezing rain.

I really hope they have an option (at least) to have free wheel coasting by default, and that they add driver controlled regen - either continuously variable or 3-4 steps of regen.

I hope they improve the rear seat legroom.

And certainly, they should increase the battery capacity - I really hope they can manage 200-250 miles of range at 55MPH on flat ground with low winds and temperature ~60F.

Bazooka
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Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 10:25 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:My hope for the Leaf 2 is that they lower the Cd from 0.29 to (at least) 0.24, which should increase the range by 25 miles or so - on the same battery pack capacity it has now. If they can lower it to ~0.21, then the range could be ~50 miles longer than the current Leaf on the same battery capacity.

This is essentially "free" improvement to the range.

I also hope they use a direct heating windshield defroster - one that is robust enough to melt ice and frost and freezing rain.

I really hope they have an option (at least) to have free wheel coasting by default, and that they add driver controlled regen - either continuously variable or 3-4 steps of regen.

I hope they improve the rear seat legroom.

And certainly, they should increase the battery capacity - I really hope they can manage 200-250 miles of range at 55MPH on flat ground with low winds and temperature ~60F.


These are all good, but I think we can safely assume that THE big deal would be the ability to change the power-on sound to a recording of your choosing. Personally, I'd go with the Star Trek "going to warp power" clip, but that's just me. :D

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TonyWilliams
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Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 10:34 am

DNAinaGoodWay wrote:S 24 kWh $26.9k
SV 36 kWh $30.9k
SL 48 kWh $34.9k

6.6 kW charger and QC standard on S and SV, 10 kW charger and QC on SL, optional on SV.

Nissan installs 100kW QCs near all Tesla locations.


2018 LEAF gen2

At $400 per kWh, then battery cost are:

$ 9,600 - 24 kWh $26.9k retail is $17,300 for remainder of car
$14,400 - 36 kWh $30.9k retail is $16,500 for remainder of car
$19,200 - 48 kWh $34.9k retail is $15,700 for remainder of car

In other words, the price spread will be greater... $25k to $39k.

While is makes sense that Nissan should make these 200 amp charge capable (about 75kW), don't expect them to do that. I suspect they will stay "low end" charge rate at the current 44kW.

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evnow
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Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 12:09 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:At $400 per kWh, then battery cost are:

Looks rather high for Gen 2.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Leaf Number: 23156
Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: What is your guess for Gen 2 Leaf ?

Fri May 29, 2015 12:58 pm

Plus, a MSRP over $35k will just feed Model 3 uptake, especially if CHAdeMO stays at 44kW.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new

@ 25 months, 25k, 267 GID, 56.88 Ahr
@ 29 months, 29k, 286 GID, 60.88 Ahr
@ 31 months, 30.3k, 274 GID, 58.39 Ahr

6.72 kW Array

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