LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:16 pm

what is the range on them? for some reason, I thought they were only slightly more than what I have now


The Ioniq? The lowest figure I've seen is 88 miles at 23F. The highest real world figure seems to be around 150 miles, with 125 a safe bet. That's more than enough for me if I like the car and it's affordable wit the options I need.

If anyone from the Ioniq forum is reading this, the site registered me automatically this morning and I was able to post once. Now I can't log in, can't get a PW sent to me, haven't heard from a Moderator...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:54 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
what is the range on them? for some reason, I thought they were only slightly more than what I have now


The Ioniq? The lowest figure I've seen is 88 miles at 23F. The highest real world figure seems to be around 150 miles, with 125 a safe bet. That's more than enough for me if I like the car and it's affordable wit the options I need.

If anyone from the Ioniq forum is reading this, the site registered me automatically this morning and I was able to post once. Now I can't log in, can't get a PW sent to me, haven't heard from a Moderator...


that is a pretty big range. what is the battery size? I thought I remembered 33?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:16 pm

Real world range varies widely, in the real world. That range is from full heat in cold weather at freeway speeds, to no climate control at secondary road speeds in nice weather. I believe the pack's usable capacity is about 30kwh, with the actual not specified. It's larger than the Leaf's, and the car is significantly more efficient than the Leaf, especially at highway speeds.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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evnow
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:14 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm not impressed with Nissan as a car company either - or especially as an EV builder. However, it's hard to blame them for the American public's nearly complete indifference to the Leaf, and to similar EVs. They could have tried more and better advertising, but I doubt it would have made any difference in the mediocre sales of the car. Low gas prices, combined with the political polarization of the country, make this a poor place to try to sell EVs, outside of the luxury market. Maybe that will change with the Model 3, but I wouldn't bet my bank account on that happening.


I think that is not a fair representation of history.

Nissan rolled the dice and went with uncooled batteries. They got caught up in battery issues that derailed their other (offering multiple battery sizes etc) plans. If they didn't have battery issues, you can bet they'd have a 200 mile Leaf earlier than Bolt or Tesla 3.

But, it is not unusual for pioneers to lose out - several industries are littered with innovative companies that just died out - or legacy companies that couldn't capitalize on innovations.

But one thing for sure - Nissan is now a non-inspiring name in the EV game, even with highest global EV sales in 2016.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to ?

Nagorak
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Leaf Number: 417128

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:27 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
The LEAF and the Bolt are in different segments of the market. Right now using a formula that takes into consideration both price and range, the LEAF is a much better deal. But then again, Bolts are going for premium plus pricing and LEAFs are being discounted up to 50%


Yeah the Bolt seems like a poor buy right now. They're going for MSRP, plus on the lease only $2500 discount is being given, with the rest being an inflated residual. Maybe it looks better if you just outright buy, provided you can take the whole tax credit (unfortunately, many cannot).

Hopefully things start to look more favorable over the course of the year as all the early adopters get cleared out. Right now it's tough to justify the cost of the Bolt vs the Leaf. The Leaf can definitely still compete on price. But Nissan is definitely going to have to step up their game with the other cars that are coming to the market over the next couple of years. 2018 is looking like it will be an exciting time for EV enthusiasts.

Nagorak
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:37 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Real world range varies widely, in the real world. That range is from full heat in cold weather at freeway speeds, to no climate control at secondary road speeds in nice weather. I believe the pack's usable capacity is about 30kwh, with the actual not specified. It's larger than the Leaf's, and the car is significantly more efficient than the Leaf, especially at highway speeds.


If you compare based on EPA numbers it looks like the Ioniq is about 20% more efficient, but has only a 15% greater range. So its battery may actually be smaller than the 2017 Leaf's? It seems like a pretty solid car.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 5&id=38428

rmay635703
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:03 pm

EPA is not an apples to apples,
So it can't be used in the battery size comparison

LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:07 pm

Somewhere in the Ioniq forum I read that Hyundai gives the pack size as 'between 30 and 34kwh.' The guess is that it's 32.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

edatoakrun
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:27 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Somewhere in the Ioniq forum I read that Hyundai gives the pack size as 'between 30 and 34kwh.' The guess is that it's 32.

More likely about 31 kWh total capacity, IMO.

But ~28kWh available from the Ioniq pack seems pretty well confirmed by the multiple range/capacity tests posted ON THE IONIQ THREAD-repost below.

The Ioniq's low drag means excellent results in high speed driving, and low weight means the Ioniq also surpasses all other (?) BEVs in efficiency in stop-and-go city driving, as shown in the video below:

Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

edatoakrun wrote:Meanwhile, back at the 2016 28kWh (available, we think) pack...

Looks like the max speed was ~35 mph, ambient temperature averaged about 77 F, and the whole drive took almost eight hours.

Increased efficiency means about 50% more range, with only ~33% greater available kWh than we had in our 2011 LEAFs.

“The Ministry of Environment officially approved that IONIQ electric’s mileage on a single charge is 191.2Km.
However, real mileage was confirmed to be 351.1Km, when it was tested.

IONIQ electric was driven at an average speed of 50Km/h (~31 mph) in a downtown like environment, using engine brake with 3-stage regenerative braking device.
Then, it recorded real mileage of 351.1Km, (~218 miles) which is higher than official mileage.

We drove around Hangang River four times, starting from Hyundai Autoway Tower Electric-car Charge Station.
As if it were in the middle of commuting, mileage was measured, while driving through downtown and congested areas, including Olympic highway and Gangbyeon highway.”

http://pushevs.com/2016/10/30/hyundai-i ... ange-test/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW56pVtWPJo


viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21136&start=70

Back on-topic, any BEV that tries to "match" the bolt on battery capacity, will be severely compromised in terms of efficiency and total cost of ownership, just as the Bolt is.

If Nissan cannot come close to matching the Ioniq in TCO and efficiency, then it will be nearly as unlikely it will sell me one as that GM can sell me a Bolt.
no condition is permanent

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:50 am

Nagorak wrote:2018 is looking like it will be an exciting time for EV enthusiasts.


I feel like we, as a community, have been saying this for about 6 years now. Just wait until next year. It will be exciting then! I have come to believe that it will continue to slowly get better through this decade. By 2020, we will (hopefully) see EVs as common in the general public's mindset as "traditional" (non-plug-in) hybrids. Yes, they are out there, and viable options. But they are "not for me" (says Joe consumer).

Nagorak wrote:If you compare based on EPA numbers it looks like the IONIQ is about 20% more efficient, but has only a 15% greater range. So its battery may actually be smaller than the 2017 Leaf's? It seems like a pretty solid car.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 5&id=38428


The trouble with EPA numbers is that they include charging losses and not just battery-to-wheel. So you can't just use them to compare battery sizes between cars. If the IONIQ also has a more efficient charger than the Leaf, it could skew the numbers like this.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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