DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11667
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:24 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Nagorak wrote:It probably would make more sense to have a "decent" charger built into the car, and then have higher powered external chargers that could be carried in the trunk for those who need them. I'm thinking something that could interface with the car battery via the DCQC port.

There's no point equipping all cars for something that is a currently a niche requirement. Maybe in 20 years if EVs catch on we'll all be charging at 80 amps though.



You just described DC charging. Tesla will be increasing super charger rates again and there is very low demand past the 40A charger because the supercharger network is so good and growing fast. The issue is the other networks and lack of commitment by the govt and the auto makers. The Bolt with it's issues would be a huge seller if it had access to a supercharger network. GM is trying to play catch up again with a few toes in the water.


funny but nearly every Bolt owner I have talked to said they switched so they wouldn't have to charge publicly at all
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 13001 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1 QCs 112
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Posts: 5786
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:33 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Nagorak wrote:It probably would make more sense to have a "decent" charger built into the car, and then have higher powered external chargers that could be carried in the trunk for those who need them. I'm thinking something that could interface with the car battery via the DCQC port.

There's no point equipping all cars for something that is a currently a niche requirement. Maybe in 20 years if EVs catch on we'll all be charging at 80 amps though.



You just described DC charging. Tesla will be increasing super charger rates again and there is very low demand past the 40A charger because the supercharger network is so good and growing fast. The issue is the other networks and lack of commitment by the govt and the auto makers. The Bolt with it's issues would be a huge seller if it had access to a supercharger network. GM is trying to play catch up again with a few toes in the water.


funny but nearly every Bolt owner I have talked to said they switched so they wouldn't have to charge publicly at all


Yes, with any longer range EV you have more opportunity to charge at home. But good luck driving distances in a Bolt in CA, I simply could not travel to the places I go. Sure it's a vast improvement but the network for long distance travel here is terrible at best.

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11667
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:50 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:

You just described DC charging. Tesla will be increasing super charger rates again and there is very low demand past the 40A charger because the supercharger network is so good and growing fast. The issue is the other networks and lack of commitment by the govt and the auto makers. The Bolt with it's issues would be a huge seller if it had access to a supercharger network. GM is trying to play catch up again with a few toes in the water.


funny but nearly every Bolt owner I have talked to said they switched so they wouldn't have to charge publicly at all


Yes, with any longer range EV you have more opportunity to charge at home. But good luck driving distances in a Bolt in CA, I simply could not travel to the places I go. Sure it's a vast improvement but the network for long distance travel here is terrible at best.


agreed. same here. as long as I stay on I-5 I am ok but stray from that and NOTHING... The Washington Coast is a worldwide tourist destination but the only options is a Telsa and they have an SC in Aberdeen (which is essentially the gateway to the coast) but no fast charge options for anyone else. So if you go, plan to spend a LOT of time...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 13001 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1 QCs 112
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JasonA
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 10:16 am
Delivery Date: 04 May 2013
Location: Sylmar, CA

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:53 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Where exactly did I ever say it was killing their range or that is was removed for that reason? Yes the second module is heavy and there is no sense in hauling that weight if it is never used, it is not insignificant as additional payload. You assume they paid they extra $2k as well for this option, they did not. You can also use that spare part elsewhere. Every assumption you made was incorrect.

Let me add:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
If you think the charger in a Tesla is heavy (there is no difference between the two) then you need to hit the gym or get off the computer or move something more then the mouse. :lol:

And yes, the ONLY reason someone would pull up the seat, kill the power, remove the unit is because "THEY" though the extra weight was hurting their range... If it wasn't then why do it in the first place? I swear you and Phil are one in the same. You both make statements with nothing to back it up.

Tell us the reason "THESE MULTIPLE PEOPLE" went through the trouble of removing their second onboard chargers then? Unless they really needed the cash. :roll:

And you keep saying "THEY"... and
You can also use that spare part elsewhere.
Unless Phil (aka Engineer) is doing this to another EV which would add EVEN MORE weight to a smaller EV and go against what BOTH YOU AND HIM TOLD ME AND THE OTHERS NOT TO DO WITH THE BRUSA...

I don't see your point or argument here?

Or any proof and nothing that backs it up and on TMC as well...
2012 10kw Dual LQ cooled Brusa powered Leaf "Astro"
13kw Enphase System,SolarWorld Panels, QuickMountPV- ALL USA!!
2014 Rav4 "SuperRav"with JdeMO (CHAdeMO)
2015 MS-70D

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Posts: 5786
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:24 pm

JasonA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Where exactly did I ever say it was killing their range or that is was removed for that reason? Yes the second module is heavy and there is no sense in hauling that weight if it is never used, it is not insignificant as additional payload. You assume they paid they extra $2k as well for this option, they did not. You can also use that spare part elsewhere. Every assumption you made was incorrect.

Let me add:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
If you think the charger in a Tesla is heavy (there is no difference between the two) then you need to hit the gym or get off the computer or move something more then the mouse. :lol:

And yes, the ONLY reason someone would pull up the seat, kill the power, remove the unit is because "THEY" though the extra weight was hurting their range... If it wasn't then why do it in the first place? I swear you and Phil are one in the same. You both make statements with nothing to back it up.

Tell us the reason "THESE MULTIPLE PEOPLE" went through the trouble of removing their second onboard chargers then? Unless they really needed the cash. :roll:

And you keep saying "THEY"... and
You can also use that spare part elsewhere.
Unless Phil (aka Engineer) is doing this to another EV which would add EVEN MORE weight to a smaller EV and go against what BOTH YOU AND HIM TOLD ME AND THE OTHERS NOT TO DO WITH THE BRUSA...

I don't see your point or argument here?

Or any proof and nothing that backs it up and on TMC as well...



Nothing you say is related to my point and mostly nonsensical ranting as usual. I'm going to just add you back to my blocked list. Jason, no one has ever removed a charger from a Tesla because they don't like extra unused weight, you are correct. It's all made up. You win your silly assumptive argument. It's just crazy and since it's not on a Tesla forum it's all made up. I love the logic and the pettiness.

JasonA
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 10:16 am
Delivery Date: 04 May 2013
Location: Sylmar, CA

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:41 pm

EVDRIVER said...
Jason, no one has ever removed a charger from a Tesla because they don't like extra unused weight,


EVDRIVER wrote:
I actually know some drivers that have removed the 80A capacity to 40A because of this and it's additional unused weight.

EVDRIVER wrote:
You can also use that spare part elsewhere.


So which is it DUDE??? I'm still waiting for your replies since YOU made the statements! :lol: :lol:

You always were full of crap... Phil too... saying we were all going to die... our Leafs were going to fail, we were going to cause massive cell phone noise and EMI.. etc.etc.etc blah blah blah..

Again... put up or shut..

Where's the data or proof to your statements above??
2012 10kw Dual LQ cooled Brusa powered Leaf "Astro"
13kw Enphase System,SolarWorld Panels, QuickMountPV- ALL USA!!
2014 Rav4 "SuperRav"with JdeMO (CHAdeMO)
2015 MS-70D

rmay635703
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:
Looks like it would cost about a grand assuming low volume purchase of parts

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 59210.html


Auto makers like Tesla make quality parts that are designed to be reliable and safe, This is not an OEM solution to say the least. Let's not go down that path.


Remove the word Tesla and I mostly agree but, the price of low quality hobby grade parts is usually many times what an OEM would pay for safe high grade parts in volume.

So my argument that it's about a grand is likely correct, from what I've been told the charger in the volt costs Chevy under $200, there is likely no real reason not to have 40 or even 80 amp capability built into every EV

User avatar
EVDRIVER
Posts: 5786
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:26 pm

rmay635703 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
rmay635703 wrote:
Looks like it would cost about a grand assuming low volume purchase of parts

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 59210.html


Auto makers like Tesla make quality parts that are designed to be reliable and safe, This is not an OEM solution to say the least. Let's not go down that path.


Remove the word Tesla and I mostly agree but, the price of low quality hobby grade parts is usually many times what an OEM would pay for safe high grade parts in volume.

So my argument that it's about a grand is likely correct, from what I've been told the charger in the volt costs Chevy under $200, there is likely no real reason not to have 40 or even 80 amp capability built into every EV



That pricing is not how auto makers price items, you or I may add $250 they do not. A $200 cost is VERY high, if they can cut a penny here and there they do. They grind suppliers to the bone. You may see more 7.2kw chargers and some larger 40A but Tesla is moving away from that and public stations would be better suited with smaller AC and one or more DC units even if they can only support 80A at that location, this gives any car with a DC port access. On my RAV I never used the 40A capacity but I really could have used a DC port.

Nagorak
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:12 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 417128

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:37 pm

Yeah you guys are right. Having a large onboard charger is kind of silly. It makes more sense to just have DCQC stations that are external to the car. It's a better solution. At home you really shouldn't need to charge at more than 40 amps.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1455
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:56 am

Nagorak wrote:Yeah you guys are right. Having a large onboard charger is kind of silly. It makes more sense to just have DCQC stations that are external to the car. It's a better solution. At home you really shouldn't need to charge at more than 40 amps.


Agreed this is the ideal long-term solution. Chargers are expensive; it is better to have a few that are located "on the ground" (literally) and shared by many EVs than to have a large one in every EV running around.

On the flip side, the market is not yet large enough to support an independent charging network. With the high cost of chargers, it is currently impossible for a company to become profitable selling only electricity. It is much cheaper for them to install an 80A J1772 connector than even a 20kW DC charger.

I don't know the best way forward on this dilemma, but it seems to me that the more options we have, the better. Which is why, at this point, I would love to see the option for a higher-power on board charger.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)

Return to “LEAF Gen 2 & Infiniti EV”