Jedlacks
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:17 am

I agree with you all. :D

So the main difference between the Bolt and the Leaf is that Chevy stuffed more batteries into the car. Therefore, they will have a longer time before they suffer the decreasing range, because they have active cooling on more batteries. It is also more expensive than the Leaf, but in all fairness, you get more. They essentially took the lessons learned from Nissan over the past 5 years and built on it. Very smart!

Maybe one day they will talk about DCQC and it could rival the best on the market. But it would not be unreasonable to believe that it will take 60 minutes to go to 80%, which may be essentially kicking the can down the road.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:36 am

Jedlacks wrote:I agree with you all. :D

So the main difference between the Bolt and the Leaf is that Chevy stuffed more batteries into the car. Therefore, they will have a longer time before they suffer the decreasing range, because they have active cooling on more batteries. It is also more expensive than the Leaf, but in all fairness, you get more. They essentially took the lessons learned from Nissan over the past 5 years and built on it. Very smart!

Maybe one day they will talk about DCQC and it could rival the best on the market. But it would not be unreasonable to believe that it will take 60 minutes to go to 80%, which may be essentially kicking the can down the road.


More power, better telematics, features, performance, range, etc. The DCQC network has no company backing it to expand to areas where it is needed.

eastocean
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:53 am

In the Washington DC, Baltimore and Delaware, (mid-Atlantic), a regional convenience and gas station, Royal Farms, is adding DC fast charging to a number of strategic stores. The units are by ChargePoint, and support both charging standards, but not Tesla.
I live in a beach resort area, and except in my town (16 free L2 public chargers) , chargers are few and far between.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:55 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:...What I care about is charging while I'm on the go. And that requires CCS quick chargers. Assuming those are around, what rate will the Bolt charge at? And what will the Leaf 2.0 charge at (only Nissan knows - if even they do). The CHAdeMO association has announced an upcoming increase to 150kW. Will Nissan eventually be able to use that?...
I think I saw in another thread that GM said that the Bolt would charge at up to 50 kW at a CCS fast charge station. How fast would depend on the starting SOC and the rate of taper as the battery fills. And, perhaps, battery temperature.

Barring some sort of dramatic chemistry change it is hard to see LEAF2 being able to charge at anywhere near 150 kW unless Nissan relents and installs a robust battery temperature management system. Current Chademo speeds, or a bit higher due to increased battery size, seem more likely for the next few years.
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:39 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:...What I care about is charging while I'm on the go. And that requires CCS quick chargers. Assuming those are around, what rate will the Bolt charge at? And what will the Leaf 2.0 charge at (only Nissan knows - if even they do). The CHAdeMO association has announced an upcoming increase to 150kW. Will Nissan eventually be able to use that?...
I think I saw in another thread that GM said that the Bolt would charge at up to 50 kW at a CCS fast charge station. How fast would depend on the starting SOC and the rate of taper as the battery fills. And, perhaps, battery temperature. <snip>

Are you sure that was the Bolt, and not the Spark EV you're remembering? The Spark can charge at up to 50kW, but I don't recall seeing anything specific about the Bolt's max charging rate, just this statement that implies about 50kW:
GM says that with the SAE Combo DC Fast Charge, the Chevy Bolt EV will be able to add 90 miles of range in about 30 minutes. It is somewhat disappointing considering DC fast-charging is primarily to make long-distance travel possible, and expecting drivers to stop every 90 miles for 30 minutes of charging is not ideal.
http://electrek.co/2016/01/11/gm-bolt-e ... ull-specs/

Whether that's a limitation of the car, or just the max. charging rate that currently available CCS chargers put out isn't clear. Audi has said they're aiming at 150kW CCS in the near future, with 350kW for the generation after that, and CHAdeMO's announcement of the same charging rates was in response to that. Does anybody have more definitive info?

Her's another quote, from R&T, which says something rather different:
Other Bolt stats: According to Mary Barra's presentation, you'll be able to fast-charge the battery to 90 percent full in just 30 minutes when using a DC charger.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/d ... ging-time/

And here's another article which says something else:
For charging, the Bolt carries along standard charging rates, proclaiming that it will regain 80% of a charge in just 60 minutes — or roughly the same DC fast charging rate comparable EVs get today.
http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/08/che ... ive-video/

Taking it altogether, I don't think we have anything I'd consider a hard number about the Bolt's max. charge rate.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:36 pm

sounds like they are simply using the most common charge rate of 50 KW. so 80% in 60 mins would be about right since there will be some tapering
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Nagorak
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:36 am

ydnas7 wrote:https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37196&id=36493&id=36484

comparing side by side, I expect Nissan to be about 10% - 15% more range than Chev Bolt, if both had the same battery capacity.


FWIW, it turns out Chevy Bolt is more efficient than the Leaf. Despite having a larger battery it gets better mileage both in city and highway driving, with highway being almost 10% better.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 7&id=38428

I like the used Leaf I bought--can't beat the price, but the Bolt really blows the current Leaf out of the water. It seems like Nissan really got caught flat footed here. I guess the Leaf is cheaper, so there is that, but I think if GM can produce enough Bolts, Nissan may find it a challenge to sell 2017 Leafs.
Last edited by Nagorak on Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:42 am

Nagorak wrote:
ydnas7 wrote:https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37196&id=36493&id=36484

comparing side by side, I expect Nissan to be about 10% - 15% more range than Chev Bolt, if both had the same battery capacity.


FWIW, it turns out Chevy Bolt is more efficient than the Leaf. Despite having a larger battery it gets better mileage both in city and highway driving, with highway being almost 10% better.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 7&id=38428

I like my the used Leaf I bought--can't beat the price, but the Bolt really blows the current Leaf out of the water. It seems like Nissan really got caught flat footed here. I guess the Leaf is cheaper, so there is that, but I think if GM can produce enough Bolts, Nissan may find it a challenge to sell 2017 Leafs.


The LEAF and the Bolt are in different segments of the market. Right now using a formula that takes into consideration both price and range, the LEAF is a much better deal. But then again, Bolts are going for premium plus pricing and LEAFs are being discounted up to 50%
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:02 pm

I assume that you mean 2016 Leafs. Not many of those left in my region.

I just signed up for the Ioniq forum this morning. It appears that that will be my next car, as GM is screwing lessees, I can't qualify for the tax credit to buy, and it's likely I'll hate the Bolt's seats. It actually seems like a more more refined car than the Bolt. And, of course, because Nissan dropped the ball on fixing any of the numerous issues with the current Leaf...
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:31 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I assume that you mean 2016 Leafs. Not many of those left in my region.

I just signed up for the Ioniq forum this morning. It appears that that will be my next car, as GM is screwing lessees, I can't qualify for the tax credit to buy, and it's likely I'll hate the Bolt's seats. It actually seems like a more more refined car than the Bolt. And, of course, because Nissan dropped the ball on fixing any of the numerous issues with the current Leaf...


what is the range on them? for some reason, I thought they were only slightly more than what I have now
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