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EVDRIVER
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:50 am

WetEV wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The reality is that higher pack density and capacity solves the issue. In the bay area there are very few chargers over 6kw.


And for the trip to Port Hardy, BC, there are a fair number of 100 Amp and 80 Amp 240V/208V Sun Country charging stations. Not much else.

Or the 48A in Republic WA. And the 70A in Omak WA. And the 70A in Winthrop, WA. Or the two 68A at Hobuck Beach Resort, Neah Bay, WA.

It would be nice to stop at the Hospitality Inn in Port Alberni, BC, and eat lunch while the car charges at 70A/208V. 14.5kW. Or stay the night, for that matter, and need half as much charging time.



The bay area has very few and 40A plus charging locations. I have only come across one ever. As demand grows for stations I expect the kw to be restricted more to allow for capacity issues. Many companies are installing L1 over L2 because of capacity VS available slots for commuters that work all day. Our DC is pretty weak as well, relatively speaking.

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:06 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:need to roll much farther back on the time line here. This was engineering decision. you are thinking "owner". you need to think "designer"

I don't remember the details of the article but guessing most Japanese households simply could not add a huge load without upgrading.

FYI; this also true of many older homes in the US.

now after all that; I am only mentioning this so speculating after the fact is something that is done extensively here but won't change a thing and nothing said will be any righter or wronger since in the grand scheme of things; we simply don't know why the decision was made...


That line of thought is fine for a first-time design. Which the Leaf was in 2010. However, now there are hundreds of thousands of EV owners out there with new experiences. I do not accept using this line of reasoning as a crutch for future designs. The spare capacity in a typical house should not result in a design constraint such as this.

All we are saying is that, moving forward, it would be nice if EVs were offered with the option of 80A charging. I'm fine with the base model staying with 15A. Let the users decide. It cannot cost that much to build in the flexibility to the design.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:23 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:need to roll much farther back on the time line here. This was engineering decision. you are thinking "owner". you need to think "designer"

I don't remember the details of the article but guessing most Japanese households simply could not add a huge load without upgrading.

FYI; this also true of many older homes in the US.

now after all that; I am only mentioning this so speculating after the fact is something that is done extensively here but won't change a thing and nothing said will be any righter or wronger since in the grand scheme of things; we simply don't know why the decision was made...


That line of thought is fine for a first-time design. Which the Leaf was in 2010. However, now there are hundreds of thousands of EV owners out there with new experiences. I do not accept using this line of reasoning as a crutch for future designs. The spare capacity in a typical house should not result in a design constraint such as this.

All we are saying is that, moving forward, it would be nice if EVs were offered with the option of 80A charging. I'm fine with the base model staying with 15A. Let the users decide. It cannot cost that much to build in the flexibility to the design.


40 and 80A options would be VERY expensive as the demand would be low, to reduce the cost auto makers would need to spread the cost on all cars. 80A charging is very fringe, even few Tesla owners add that option and the few that do rarely can or do use it ever. I actually know some drivers that have removed the 80A capacity to 40A because of this and it's additional unused weight.

JasonA
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:02 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:I actually know some drivers that have removed the 80A capacity to 40A because of this and it's additional unused weight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously?? The additional weight one charger adds was killing the owner's range so they "paid" Tesla the $500 (which is exact amount of ANY SC to install or remove) to remove something they already paid $2000 or $2500???

And you know multiple people that have done this? :roll: I'd love to see their before and after Wh/mi results!
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:20 pm

JasonA wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:I actually know some drivers that have removed the 80A capacity to 40A because of this and it's additional unused weight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously?? The additional weight one charger adds was killing the owner's range so they "paid" Tesla the $500 (which is exact amount of ANY SC to install or remove) to remove something they already paid $2000 or $2500???

And you know multiple people that have done this? :roll: I'd love to see their before and after Wh/mi results!


Where exactly did I ever say it was killing their range or that is was removed for that reason? Yes the second module is heavy and there is no sense in hauling that weight if it is never used, it is not insignificant as additional payload. You assume they paid they extra $2k as well for this option, they did not. You can also use that spare part elsewhere. Every assumption you made was incorrect.

Let me add:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

rmay635703
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:42 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:40 and 80A options would be VERY expensive as the demand would be low, to reduce the cost auto makers would need to spread the cost on all cars.


Looks like it would cost about a grand assuming low volume purchase of parts

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 59210.html

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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:29 pm

rmay635703 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:40 and 80A options would be VERY expensive as the demand would be low, to reduce the cost auto makers would need to spread the cost on all cars.


Looks like it would cost about a grand assuming low volume purchase of parts

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 59210.html



Auto makers like Tesla make quality parts that are designed to be reliable and safe, This is not an OEM solution to say the least. Let's not go down that path.

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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:37 pm

It probably would make more sense to have a "decent" charger built into the car, and then have higher powered external chargers that could be carried in the trunk for those who need them. I'm thinking something that could interface with the car battery via the DCQC port.

There's no point equipping all cars for something that is a currently a niche requirement. Maybe in 20 years if EVs catch on we'll all be charging at 80 amps though.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:42 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
WetEV wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The reality is that higher pack density and capacity solves the issue. In the bay area there are very few chargers over 6kw.


And for the trip to Port Hardy, BC, there are a fair number of 100 Amp and 80 Amp 240V/208V Sun Country charging stations. Not much else.

Or the 48A in Republic WA. And the 70A in Omak WA. And the 70A in Winthrop, WA. Or the two 68A at Hobuck Beach Resort, Neah Bay, WA.

It would be nice to stop at the Hospitality Inn in Port Alberni, BC, and eat lunch while the car charges at 70A/208V. 14.5kW. Or stay the night, for that matter, and need half as much charging time.



The bay area has very few and 40A plus charging locations. I have only come across one ever. As demand grows for stations I expect the kw to be restricted more to allow for capacity issues. Many companies are installing L1 over L2 because of capacity VS available slots for commuters that work all day. Our DC is pretty weak as well, relatively speaking.


same here. isn't it a bit strange that two of the most robust and earliest EV adoption areas has fallen so far behind many areas of the country. I recently saw a plugshare map of the Northeast and they are blowing us away! So are many areas of the country. Its starting to look like being first out has penalized us in some way
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Re: Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Nagorak wrote:It probably would make more sense to have a "decent" charger built into the car, and then have higher powered external chargers that could be carried in the trunk for those who need them. I'm thinking something that could interface with the car battery via the DCQC port.

There's no point equipping all cars for something that is a currently a niche requirement. Maybe in 20 years if EVs catch on we'll all be charging at 80 amps though.



You just described DC charging. Tesla will be increasing super charger rates again and there is very low demand past the 40A charger because the supercharger network is so good and growing fast. The issue is the other networks and lack of commitment by the govt and the auto makers. The Bolt with it's issues would be a huge seller if it had access to a supercharger network. GM is trying to play catch up again with a few toes in the water.

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