cmwade77
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:16 pm

rcm4453 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
Do you drive the car every day when it's warm?


Yes- Highest temp 103. It never sat at 100%


How do you mange to never let your car sit at 100%? I'm just curious, seems like it would be a lot of work and take an awful lot of planning to pull this off every day.


Actually, using the charging timer, this is very easy, just time it to be done charging when you are ready to go. But really my understanding of it is if the battery sits at 100% for more than about 8 hours is what is bad and for me, we don't have a charger at home, so it never sits at 100%, as I have to drive it home after charging, although that is only a couple of blocks.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7674
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:29 pm

Blast the heat in Normal mode on the drive home. You want it showing less than 98%.

Speaking of which, mine is currently parked covered with ice, with the pack at virtually 100%. If I still had remote access I could soften the ice with the cabin heater and bring the SOC down as well, all without leaving the house. As it is I'll be using tepid water to get into it tomorrow. It's 12F outside now, with a brisk breeze.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12397
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:37 pm

rcm4453 wrote:Doesn't it make financial sense for Nissan to word it differently rather then let their batteries degrade prematurely? I just don't understand the business model of doing a bunch of battery warranty replacements instead of implementing a "hilltop reserve" mode like Chevy Bolt does? I could see Nissan not caring if they didn't have a capacity warranty.

So do we know for sure that the 2018 Leaf doesn't have any type of "battery saver" setting?


We are not sure of anything really. Anyone know?

The reality is Nissan was pretty much Pro Pilot and not much of anything else....
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12397
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:47 pm

cmwade77 wrote:
rcm4453 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:
Yes- Highest temp 103. It never sat at 100%


How do you mange to never let your car sit at 100%? I'm just curious, seems like it would be a lot of work and take an awful lot of planning to pull this off every day.


Actually, using the charging timer, this is very easy, just time it to be done charging when you are ready to go. But really my understanding of it is if the battery sits at 100% for more than about 8 hours is what is bad and for me, we don't have a charger at home, so it never sits at 100%, as I have to drive it home after charging, although that is only a couple of blocks.



"more than 8 hours" statements need to be clarified. It only takes a second for heat and High SOC to start playing the bad guy.

So we balance need with BMS and charge management. Problem with all that is it will take 2 years (since one year is not enough to convince anyone of anything) to really provide decent anecdotal evidence.

The big ask; Is it better to charge to 100% during the coolest part of the day (night) even if its not all that cool and then drive it to under 80% first thing in the morning or is it better to fast charge in the middle of the day getting the batteries hotter but driving down that high SOC right away.

Realize the slower charge option means high SOC both coming and going and in the L2 situation, it could be as much as 2 hours because of the speed of the charge. Now you can drive enough to lower the SOC to a less dangerous range in 20-30 mins easy enough.

Wnat would be nice is a comprehensive profile of what an active TMS actually does, when it does what and to what degree it does it. Problem we have is Nissan is only pack that good monitoring programs and yes, the monitoring program is only as good as the instrumentation feeding it and we all know that Nissan instrumentation isn't that good. Of course it wasn't meant for public consumption so it leaves a lot to be desired but at least its something.

Everything else seems to be more user inputted opinions based on something
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
cmwade77 wrote:
rcm4453 wrote:
How do you mange to never let your car sit at 100%? I'm just curious, seems like it would be a lot of work and take an awful lot of planning to pull this off every day.


Actually, using the charging timer, this is very easy, just time it to be done charging when you are ready to go. But really my understanding of it is if the battery sits at 100% for more than about 8 hours is what is bad and for me, we don't have a charger at home, so it never sits at 100%, as I have to drive it home after charging, although that is only a couple of blocks.



"more than 8 hours" statements need to be clarified. It only takes a second for heat and High SOC to start playing the bad guy.

So we balance need with BMS and charge management. Problem with all that is it will take 2 years (since one year is not enough to convince anyone of anything) to really provide decent anecdotal evidence.

The big ask; Is it better to charge to 100% during the coolest part of the day (night) even if its not all that cool and then drive it to under 80% first thing in the morning or is it better to fast charge in the middle of the day getting the batteries hotter but driving down that high SOC right away.

Realize the slower charge option means high SOC both coming and going and in the L2 situation, it could be as much as 2 hours because of the speed of the charge. Now you can drive enough to lower the SOC to a less dangerous range in 20-30 mins easy enough.

Wnat would be nice is a comprehensive profile of what an active TMS actually does, when it does what and to what degree it does it. Problem we have is Nissan is only pack that good monitoring programs and yes, the monitoring program is only as good as the instrumentation feeding it and we all know that Nissan instrumentation isn't that good. Of course it wasn't meant for public consumption so it leaves a lot to be desired but at least its something.

Everything else seems to be more user inputted opinions based on something


anecdotal evidence of 1 here. But I noticed the effect temperature had on the battery during the early spring and late fall months with my 2013 leaf. I had set the timer to 8am and 80% and left it that way for years 1 & 2. During those time periods (and sometimes in winter), there would be an almost 20-degree jump in temperature between 6am and 10am. Normally, I would leave with an SOC of 79%, but those months, I'd often see 82-83%, with the most drastic difference being 85% (it was a VERY cold night followed by a very rapid warm up).

So like with everything else, it depends. I think for high-desert/arid region residents, it might be safer to do the middle day fast charging during the cold periods, and then switch to overnight charging during the hot periods. But that's just conjecture on the thought that we don't want the battery charge to exceed 100%.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
May '17 - 7300 mi / 363 GIDs :: Sep '17 - 13k mi / 359 GIDs :: Oct '17 - 15.5k mi / 344 GIDs
Nov '17 - 17.1k mi / 332 GIDs :: Jan '18 - 18.9k mi / 326 GIDs]

cmwade77
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:09 am

I guess another part of it is I am in a very temperate climate, yes we have our hot days and our cool days, but overall since I live in Long Beach, CA, we don't generally have too many days over 100 or under 60.

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